The Case for N. American Denisovan Presence
Yesterday I was notified that The Coming of the Thunder People had been published. I read the article with interest, particularly as it regarded two tribes I am personally connected with, the Chippewa I am related to by blood, and the Tlingit, amongst whom I was raised in Sitka, Alaska. Immediately after reading this article that pointed out the greater Denisovan admixture of the Tlingit and a few Algonquian tribes, the Ojibwa and Cree, I read of @jin-out's interest in the Tlingit and my knowledge of them.
IMG source - AncientOriginsUnleashed.com
This caused me to realize that the genetic legacy of Denisovan admixture in Native Americans could only be differentiated across the many tribes had some of that admixing happened after ~23kya, when the Siberian forebears of all Native Americans had emigrated to the Americas. If all the Denisovan admixture came from Siberian interactions, the amount of admixture in all the peoples in the Americas would be the same, because they all had the same forebears from Siberia. The only superable explanation for the roughly double dose of Denisovan ancestry in the Tlingit, Ojibwa, and Cree is that long after their ancestors had arrived in the Americas, and diverged into separate tribes from the original cohort, there had been additional admixture from N. American Denisovan sources.
While the Ojibwa and Cree are both Algonquian peoples, the Tlingit are not. It is likely that separate admixture events affect the Tlingit and Algonquian tribes, the latter whom could share such admixture event, being closely related. While I hunted, fished, worked, and partied with Tlingits, in my youth I was not interested in history, and their cultural heritage, which left me largely unaware of it except in particulars I gleaned from casual conversation with my friends, and the art and craft very present locally. Few would live in Sitka with it's many stunning Totem poles and never learn more about them, for example.
The Native American tribes most familiar to people, the Apache, Commanche, Navajo, Hopi, Cherokee, Iroquois, and etc., only share the genetic admixture with Denisovans common to Siberian peoples. Because all Native Americans descend from the initial immigrants from Siberia (according to the official anthropological narrative, backed up by genetic research), the ~double dose of Denisovan ancestry some tribes have did not derive from their roots in Siberia, but was acquired in N. America by those select tribes interbreeding with N. American Denisovans, otherwise it would be shown in all Native American tribes.
For a long time American archaeology officially claimed that no people lived in the Americas prior to ~13kya, when the glaciers had withdrawn enough to leave an ice free corridor between the eastern Laurentide ice sheet, and the Cordilleran ice sheet to the west. However, many well documented and solidly dated archaeological sites in the Americas are now known to be between 20ky and 30ky old. There are some few between 100ky and 250ky old, though these are not only disputed, but ridiculed today.
Denisovans are also said to have gone extinct tens of thousands of years before 13kya, and no one has officially acknowledged they once resided in the Americas. This differential admixture proves Denisovans did live in the Americas, and recently enough to mix with Native Americans after they emigrated from Siberia. This puts official American archaeology between a rock and a hard place, as they first have to admit that Denisovans did live in N. America, and then that they still lived in N. America when Native Americans arrived here. The later they claim Native Americans arrived, the later they must admit Denisovans yet lived, which contradicts the official archaeoanthropological narrative in all three regards. Denisovans are said to have diverged from the Neanderthals (whom we diverged from ~400kya) ~800kya, and could have easily been the humans responsible for sites in N. America 100ky or 200ky old - but the 'official narrative' scoffs at the possibility, and researchers who report such findings are blackballed, denied grant funding, their careers destroyed.
I only just realized it as I was writing this comment, because @jin-out asked me if I was related to the Tlingit (I hadn't yet learned of the book that has been written about it, because I hadn't finished the article in the first link. I have now). Denisovans are thought to have averaged above 7' tall, over 2M in height, and during the 18th and 19th Centuries, even into the early 20th Century, many skeletal remains of 'giants' were documented being found buried in the many mounds across N. America. Hundreds of newspaper articles discuss these archaeological finds at the time, and relate how museums were provided these remains for study, particularly the Smithsonian Institute founded by Ales Hrdlicka - who had proposed the Clovis First hypothesis that the Americas were only colonized after ~13kya.
No museum today admits to ever having received any of these skeletal remains, and the Smithsonian claims all the reports were hoaxes. Ales Hrdlicka was granted a lot of funding as a result of his popular Clovis First hypothesis, and this gave him a financial incentive to conceal evidence of prior population of the Americas the Denisovan remains provided. That popularity was why he founded the Smithsonian, in fact. However the very specific and limited admixture of Native American tribes with Denisovans proves that admixture happened long after the Native Americans arrived in N. America, because if it had happened in Siberia all Native Americans would have that admixture, all of them being descended from that initial emigration from Siberia and diverging into the hundreds of cultures they are now after arriving here.
Anyone familiar with the obvious disingenuity of historical and archaeological 'science' will note the congruence of the destruction of archaeological evidence of Denisovan civilization in the Americas with the false narratives crafted by copyist monks, whom deleted historical narratives and records and revised them according to their political loyalties, and the blatant concealment of facts regarding how the Pyramids and many megalithic sites were constructed, and by whom, ongoing today. While it is difficult to suss out the truth, it is almost impossible to fail to realize the false 'official narrative' Egyptology, particularly, attempts to impose.
The fact of the extensive mounds in N. America, the destruction of skeletons obviously likely to be Denisovan found in them, and the proven Denisovan genetic admixture that could only have resulted from interaction in the Americas after ~23kya, strongly suggests that H. sapiens acquired our civilization from our Denisovan forebears, and this is what fake history and archaeological narratives are concealing from us.
Hey VC, will be back to comment tomorrow. Just been busy all day moving house. I am beat!
About to crack open a nice ale. I am drinking DOOM BAR dark Ale. I will save half tomorrow (i can't hold my drink) and use it to make coffee. Boil the dark ale a little on low heat, add Percol Columbian coffee, no sugar...evaporated milk...slow boil on low low low heat, for about 10mins max...add green whole green chilli and wait...just wait...
BANG THIS IS BRAVE-SMOKE'S DRINK!!!
I'm not sure I'm ready for coffee flavored beer - but not having tried it, it could be the best thing evar!.
Maybe they're concealing this from us because it gives Russia a reasonable claim on North America. For years Europeans were brutalizing people who originated in Siberia and that's not cool.
Opinion:
No one has "claim" over any land. Everyone's a migrant and soon one day the ancestors of tomorrow will be your ours, future kids many humdred generations ahead, skeletons in a different part of the world, and the people in that present time will be talking about the "claims" for different places. But one thing is for certain. They are definitely concealing something about Giants and history, but it has nothing to with land grabs, because it just seems illogical to me.
I am reminded that a Native American friend of mine once called me 'boat people'. We are all boat people when you look back far enough. As far as laying claims, you can only claim what you can keep. At the beginning of the Neolithic violence reduced the diversity of Y DNA, passed from father to son, by ~95%, while mtDNA, passed from mothers to their children, was unaffected.
Genocide has ever been the tool of those that would lay claim to our homelands, and we must keep our posterity from such utter destruction.
That reminds me of the term "Missouri" which for the longest time I thought it meant men with big boats, but I just recently looked it up and apparently their had been a correction to the etymology and literally translates to "wood boats"... Go figure.
I looked back further and apparently I'm just some star about to blow up from too much iron intake ;P
That concept is what I often have been repeating lately to the locals. Private property is ours if you have the means to keep it. Sometimes it's a social construct, other times it's the force behind it to keep it. Other time it's "this is my land now and my army is going to take it."
100% unfortunately for the West family values is so degraded and separated that I rarely see family sticking up for each other when tyranny in uniform comes knocking on their door. I know I have many couple thousand of my family name and blood here in my city but when it comes to their government, they Automatically think they have a right to do what they do. Smdh.
Who would think that the vagaries of migrations millennia past would give them a claim on clay today? There was no Russia then. Besides, it's been shown that the physical features of Europeans arose first in Siberia, with the earliest fair features and light eyes to date demonstrated in ANE (ancient north Eurasian) remains. Such twisting of our understanding of human origins falls apart when considered with the light of aDNA that has only recently turned the false claims of gatekeepers of our history, and prehistory, on their heads.
It's always a good thing when reason is availed facts to consider, and all the lies in the world can be brushed aside.
Thanks!
Recently became interested in the Yamanaya Culture which originated in the Volga/Urals region that probably first figured out Horseback Riding and settled most of Europe.
I have read also they invented dairy, as well as horse drawn carts, and these technologies were together massive economic advances that made the Yamnaya all but indomitable when competing with cultures without them. The Yamnaya steppe people began an expansion that eventually conquered the region between Xinjiang and Tunisia, from India to Norway, a greater extent than any single imperial polity in history.
This expansion of that demographic appears to be how PIE (proto Indo European) languages spread, and the linguistic comparison between these related languages enables some ability to track that expansion across time. Another interesting result of my research is that the majority of peoples conquered by the descendants of the Yamnaya seem to have suffered the complete eradication of Y DNA, the chromosome passed exclusively from father to son, while not having a similar impact on mtDNA, that passed from mothers to their children. This suggests that all males were put to the sword by the conquerors, while the women were put to work.
The Norse are said to have been overwhelmed and to have survived only in the far north of Scandinavia for ~1000 years, purging from that people most of the variation in their Y DNA. After that bottleneck, the Norse exploded out of Gutland and began a reconquista of Europe, N. Africa, and W. Asia that subsequently replaced Y DNA of the descendants of the steppe people with that of the Germanic tribes, eventually resulting in the modern distribution of Y DNA across these regions today.
It is certainly a fascinating area to research, productive of consideration of modern people and polities that exist today. It is easy to condemn what appears to have been genocidal violence these migrations seem to have employed, but when viewed in context of the times as the Bronze age arose from the Neolithic, the comparison with the emergence of the Neolithic makes it seem almost gentle. The evidence suggests that as the less developed cultures were faced with the technological advances of the Neolithic revolution, ~95% of men were genocided.
I haven't seen any skeletons in person of giants. Only pictures and some independent documentation talking about the findings and strange events involving "secret service" agents, military, and or other agencies threatening to hush them up and confiscating "classified evidence" and then the government denying ever have done that. Just supposed testimonials from eye witnesses and the people that claimed they found the skeletons. The last one I remember of this claim to being found was supposedly is in northern Utah. It's been a long while since I looked into though.
Did the Denisovans ever move south? Or did they just move further north into the Canadian forests?
It's a really, really interesting subject, the evolution of homo sapiens. They reckon it's more like a kinda web or an messy tree than the classic ape - man image. We just watched a really interesting youtube on it which detailed 'ghost africans' and people even before the denisovian - plus a whole other range of species across asia - just incredible. It never 'fit' religious ideas and they hated the idea we could be descended from an ape, which of course didn't fit the whole 'god made adam and eve' story.
I was astounded when the remains of a timber frame structure solidly dated to ~478kya was found in Zambia recently. The implications of pre-sapiens hominins having such advanced tech are pretty mind-boggling. Also, the majority of hominins being found in Eurasia, particularly including basal species like Floresiensis and Luzonensis, make a mockery of the OoA hypothesis, that is based only on a model of molecular change, and ignores the incongruity of the L, M, and N haplotypes suddenly arising from the small population of subsaharan hominins, right around the time Toba smothered S. Asia. The power of funding sources, particularly those with political agendae, to influence publishing is too little understood, but, as I point out in the OP, has strongly influenced narratives that underlie our understanding of who we are and how we got here.
The interpretation of megalithic construction is particularly silly, when the remarkable precision of fit and finish, the demonstrable toolmarks of power tools, and claims that very hard materials like schist, granite, and similar stone were manufactured to sub-millimeter tolerances with copper chisels, or even pounding stone hammers, are put forward. Even folks that have never cut a board or pounded a nail can grasp that such claims are without merit, and the persistence of these false narratives reveals the obdurate purpose of such deception fails when new technologies - especially aDNA - flatly disproves decades, even centuries of obfuscation of our true origins. We have only learned of Denisovans by that advance, and the destruction wrought by disingenuous machinations of every discovery in America for more than a century rendered useless with the aDNA from a tiny fragment of a pinky bone in a Siberian cave. How that must have enraged the deceivers!
Thanks!
Enraged, indeed - it's very much a story of how the stupid don't realise they lack intelligence. And it hurts be uncomfortable as your way of seeing is disrupted.
It strikes me that it's a form of arrogance, a belief in our superiority - and worse when white man assumes the black (let's assume I'm talking about all the nuances - Christian over Islam, America v rest of hte world, and so on) inferiority.
Mankind aren't very good thinkers, I'm afraid. Not on the whole. I wonder if this is an evolutionary trait - some beliefs need to be steadfast ie. snakes are dangerous. Yet flexible thinking surely should also be a survival skill?
You know, if I had my time again, I'd love to be a geneticist. So fascinating.
I have oft noted that the laws of physics determine economics, and today decentralization of the means of production across all fields of industry are the cutting edge of technological advance. The most advanced tech is the most productive, which is why tech advances, after all, as producers seek greater productivity from their application of their labors. This competitive advantage of decentralized means of production increases the ability of individuals and small communities to create wealth, and when the continued development and distribution of table top means of production are considered over time, the deprecation of centralized production and the hoards of capital necessary to produce massive factories will result. Why earn taxable wages to purchase widgets that sales of are taxed, when you can produce them on your kitchen table without creating a taxable event - and make a bespoke product specific to your personal need, rather than mass produced crap intended for general use?
My understanding of the fundamental nature of the laws of physics mandating this evolution in technology strongly suggests that the evolutionary pressures on humanity are reverting to those that produce high intelligence and individual merit. After the catastrophic Younger Dryas, that extinguished 77 genera of megafauna that were the preferred economic resources of people previously (one mammoth kill was ~4k meals of ~4kcal each, enabling one hunt to feed a village for a month or so), agriculture became necessary to sustain populations no longer able to supply their needs by hunting the extinct megafauna. This radical change in economic reality dramatically changed the evolutionary pressure on humanity, that previously had advanced intelligence and extraordinary athletic prowess of hunters (necessary to stab a 10 ton animal to death with a pointy stick), and replaced it with a need to serve crops with incessant drudgery turning piles of rotting poop and scratching lines in dirt, and conform to social pressure that arose as food and resources were centralized under rulers and their gangs of armed thugs. That deprecated intelligence because that produced dissent, and required only unending grubbing in dirt by slaves, rather than athletic prowess that was a threat to armed gangs of thugs.
However, CRISPR has recently been shown to comprise not only the CAS-9 mechanism, but thousands of mechanisms that are very likely to enable application of genetic engineering without the drawbacks of the CAS-9 mechanism. Because CRISPR is extremely simple and inexpensive (the means of genetic engineering cost about as much as a nice lunch out with family) and can be employed on a kitchen table, evolutionary pressures applied by the natural environment are likely to become irrelevant, as people gain understanding of our genes and how to change them to what we prefer.
For a couple hundred bucks you can become a genetic engineer in your spare time today. The-odin.com also provides targeted educational materials for similar negligible cost. The world is your oyster.
Dear my respected senior @valued-customer !
I don't know about Denisovans, but I remember them as a different species from Cro-Magnon.
Although I have a hard time understanding your large and magnificent English sentences, I understand that you are probably arguing that the first inhabitants of America were Denisovans, not Cro-Magnon.
I am insensitive to the fact that Native Americans were destroyed by your ancestors.
Christians in East Asia like me tend to believe that it is God’s will that North America has become a Christian world.
Because North America has become a Christian country, there are Christians in East Asia who can escape the cruel domination of China and Japan.
ANE (ancient north Eurasian) is currently of the greatest interest to East Asians. Buddhism in the Indian subcontinent had a great influence on the birth of East Asian civilization. Therefore, many East Asian scholars believe that the descendants of ANE (ancient north Eurasian) created the civilization of the Indian subcontinent!
I hope you won't be disappointed if I misunderstand your intentions!😃
After translating your great English sentences, I will prepare a more perfect answer!
I hope your health and longlife!