RE: Is Hive Watcher's doing a good job?
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We need a lot of things, just people need to care.
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We need a lot of things, just people need to care.
THIS
yeah, so just abandoning anti-abuse and not more people joining anti-abuse efforts (not caring) wont bring us any further
I downvote more abuse than they do on a daily basis. There is a handful of other people doing some as well, but largely most people don't want to be involved or risk losing upvotes.
I also do not like Hivewatchers
I am always downvoting when I see something, since years
I have also already witnessed Hivewatchers condemning people for wrong
Still, if we just abandon (like all the comments under your post seems to want) - we still need some kind of alternative.
maybe revive HiveFlagRewards? redistribute the HBD that go to Hivewatchers currently to HiveFlagRewards ?
Do we though? We would have $270/day less sell pressure and about $20/day of abuse.
Yeah, you only care about the selling pressure, ofc
huh? I've been fighting abuse before it was cool. In fact, I still fight more abuse than they do 6 years later.
The reality is though, we are paying them $290/day (they originally got $350/day but with all the blowback they lowered it to $290/day so they still keep getting paid). They actually stop less than $20/day. If they did nothing, we would save like $270/day.
I know that Hivewatchers is more of a problem than a solution - that is nothing new since years
Still, we need SOME alternative, instead of just allowing wild west abuse (cuz noone except you and the old few faces care for anti-abuse)
with all the scammers currently whining against Hivewatchers and cheering for the abolishment
this platform will go to dust very fast
no matter that we have 290 $ less selling pressure
wild west abuser platform is worse than 290$ selling pressure
Any abuse is easily dealt with. The simple fact most abusers have no HP to take advantage of it. Hive Watchers spends most of their days cleaning up posts for a few pennies
It is easy - if organized
All the raging germans (who cry cuz their easy way of farming rewards is gone due to HW) even advocate for ABOLISHING DOWNVOTING IN GENERAL
SO GOOD LUCK WITH THEM
and your great Hive platform that goes to complete shit
Germans didnt care about us wanting to decentralize HW, they only care about their easy rewards.
Their circlejerks.
So they suddenly want to abolish HW
Ofc Downvoting in general
So they can have their "peace and freedom" again
Good luck !
I doubt Hive Watchers does much to deal with any of it anyway, they mostly go after people farming 4 cent rewards and new users. It takes me about 2 seconds to add them to my bot to deal with it.
I dont care what you doubt.
Thousandth time: I also do not like HW - since way too long
still, noone has a better idea in this great decentralized community
Have some other better idea - make the useful idiots germans join the anti-abuse effort
decentralize it
But if you all now just rage to abolish Hivewatchers, we will soon have the whole Steem Swamp here
And every scammer from the net
You guys need to imagine that we need to give good incentives, as a platform - not only for scammers and abusers
I find it funny you think they do anything now or will do anything in the future about it.
It is more about the outside look.
I find it funny how you think your marky bot will be a good sign for decentralized selfregulation.
How will the marky bot be different to HW?
I find it funny how everyone want to abolish HW and even just DOWNVOTING in general
And somultaneously do not want to do ANY effort for anti-abuse.
(Especially looking in the german direction)
All the best !
That's not applicable to Marky. He's a DV pro.
However, I don't think most DV's on the platform are flown on abusive posts and comments. Most of it is OPINION FLAGGING which is censorship of objectionable opinions - free speech. That's got to end, or it will end Hive. Instead of promoting flagging the bullies paying censors to police free speech should be defending it. I am not naming names, but there are less than 3 dozen possibilities with the stake to do this.
They do this, I believe, to retain control of the rewards pool and enrich themselves because if Hive became a good investment for outside capital they'd lose their command of the rewards pool, just as happened to Steem, and they are also profiting from Hive being a plutocracy. For these reasons they oppress free speech on Hive covertly, to keep it small enough they can dominate the rewards pool.
Someone that cares enough about money can find out who the likely culprits are. I know for a fact there are such quid pro quo arrangements, although I cannot name the culprits and only know of one of their minions for a fact, whom I will not name to protect my source.
Hive isn't dying. It's being killed for profit, and the killers have @'s.
First we abolish HW, then Downvoting in general - the decentralized self-regulating mechanism of this blockchain itself
you can team up with the germans
all the best !
You sir are a dumbass.
I dont care, abolish what you want - make your marky bot
abolish this platform
insult everyone who does not agree
that is how a decentralized community works for sure
hive probably already dead, so unimportant anyways
all the best
I still dont like you for downvoting my frens and me :D, but cudos for having the debate at least. Im getting cancer just scimming through parts of it.
I never once downvoted you, unless you are referring to an alt. You know full well your friends deserve it.
You reported me to leo.voter for not posting finance content in Leo, I wasnt aware. @alexvan tried to tell you but you insisted on me being fully awae of leo being a finance only community.
I checked the discord, but it is such an old and small thing Im not mad for it not being on your radar.
None of my friends ever deserve a downvote. @thegrandestine was doing interesting stuff until you flagged them off the platform, cause alts = evil...
Not sure who else we bumped heads over, I always confuse you and HW :3
Umm, ok. So I didn't flag you right? Just tried to keep the community on topic right?
The one with 30+ alts spamming images chain chatting with each alt? Wow, I'm such a jerk.
I have never been part of or supported Steam Cleaners or Hive Watchers. I always disagreed with their
Technically correct, but Im not sure if it isnt even worse, Herr Blockwart
The one who spend a few ten thousand $BEE to create dozens of Tokens and Diesel Pools. Im not sure if it all collapsed cause he was never serious from the start, you foiled his plans or too little people where interested in finding out about the deeper message of his game. I think it is somewhere between all three of them or maybe he will come back and conclude what he started.
Anyways the whole story shows me that you too downvote content you dont like and try to build justifications around it, just like HW.
To be fair the only time I encountered abuse, I called the authorities (HW) and they did their job. Im generally for a voluntary Scam/Abuse/indecent-content police, not the wild west method. Im just disappointed in the execution when you look into the details of the cases.
Im sure this line of work can cook your brains and as most veteran Hivians brains are fried hard already - I think you fare rather well all things considered.
So? That doesn't give him a license to spam garbage everywhere and farm rewards.
This is absolute garbage and a waste of space on the chain much less the Internet. There is no reason in the world this should be rewarded. This is a small sample of the thousands of occurrences I found his garbage.
Yes he did micro upvotes with his alts. The rewards he made from this are about 0.1% of what he put into the game.
It all boils down that you think his content is garbage. I would love to flag the things on hive that I think are garbage. I would downvote a post/comment of a whale every time he uses the word web3. Would be a fun world, but it is not the world we live in.
I honestly dont see how we can progress as a blockchain if we got some Boomers downvoting everything they think is garbage. Well maybe this is why hive seems stuck in 2018.
There is a difference between someone posting a real authentic comment with the word web3 and someone posting 1000 shitty automated comments that look like someone shit on the screen.
Boomer? LOL, alright bro we done. Go find someone else's shoulder to cry on.
HIVE IS DEAD
4 days ago in #life by tarazkp (84)$0.00
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[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 2 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
Team marky @gogreenbuddy part of the @markymark @buildawhale @usainvote @apeminingclub @makerhacks @upmyvote @punkteam @rollingbones @theycallmemarky @memess @blockheadgames @leovoter @ipromote gang
MARKY STOP THE DOWNVOTE ABUSE STOP SELF VOTING WITH ALL THESE ALT ACCOUNTS
You have a point.
you are an coward blind follower
a fascist
projecting hivewatcher crap onto old anti-abuse members (while you know I've been against hivewatcher since it inception)
you successfully hunted me off the platform (I am stopping all the support and will leave, as you want it)
and then go into victimhood
and claim about censorship, while I have no power to censor you
-> you dont even know what censorship is
dumbass
That's the problem. You are advocating forcing people to act as you want them to. That is not freedom.
Freedom is allowing the market to give them something to care about. Allowing profiteering from curation rewards shows how this works, by creating incentives that have nothing to do with actual content to promote curation. When people gain upvotes for forthright speech they have a reason to care about forthright speech.
The problems of profiteering, circle jerks, spam, scams, and plagiarism, are all examples of how bad incentives are coded into Hive. A plutocracy creates incentives to seek money above all else. This deranges economic systems that we should want to float all the boats in the community, rather than rewarding pirates to take everything they can.
Hive needs to code incentives better, and eliminate incentives for malign action, like profiteering or pandering.
This is the solution to all the problems we face. We need to support free speech, and particularly criticism, because that is what makes free speech valuable to society. When we properly code incentives into Hive, we won't have to pay people to suppress bad actors, because people will defend Hive to defend their benefit from it.
People that gain nothing from Hive have no reason to defend it, so they don't. That is the problem.
This.
Eliminate the censorship ring that HW and Steemcleaners are paid to be. They're killing Hive daily.
Shut up
Stop spamming me with 1000000 comments
Most people didn't amass fortunes running bidbots. I dunno much about backdoor deals, but you and wolfie joined the oligarchy when the bidbots folded, so something was arranged off chain.
That being said, I have expressed my opinion to you without restraint, and you have not flagged me for it, which I respect. I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to support authors that are being permanently opinion flagged, and if you promoted free speech with your phat bags a lot fewer of the content creators that eventually give up fighting that financial censorship would give up.
I zealously promote free speech - and particularly OBJECTIONABLE speech - and hope you will too. Hive has not succeeded in competition with blatantly censored web2 platforms because it does not protect free speech, which you and other oligarchs could do. I can only conjecture that were Hive to become a profitable investment legacy financial players would buy up tokens and take power in the plutocratic governance model Hive employs, and you and your mates don't want to lose your pond you're the big fish in today.
Perhaps you could set me straight if I'm wrong.
However, whether you even deign to notice I exist or not, you could defend creators that are opinion flagged, like @por500bolos, who adamantly refuses to be flagged off the platform. Hive NEEDS forthright speech and CRITICISM to succeed.
Please defend and promote Hive by defending objectionable/critical free speech and countering opinion flags.
Thank you.
I am part of no oligarchy or anything I’m as much of a loner here as you can get.
As for flagging for opinion, that’s not my style. What others do is out of my hands.
Well, appearances certainly can be deceiving, and I pointed out all I can do is conjecture from what I see. I agree that what others do isn't in our hands, but as a coder you certainly can consider mechanisms to promote free speech and deprecate profiteering.
I don't think that's really your 'style' either, but thought it was worth an ask.
Hive has more free speech than anywhere, there is no guarantee you will be rewarded though but your content won't be removed.
Ah, C'mon Marky! Don't be so modest. You know very well what @valued-customer means when he correctly says that you are a member of the oligarchy in Hive. After all, you occupy the eighth position in that plutocratic hierarchy for quite some time.
Oh! and another thing mate. Also stop being so elusive by avoiding responding directly to what @valued-customer has suggested you should do. };)
You see? He's telling you that with your high HP, your obvious privileges/support and your coding skills, you could really make a difference if you wanted even if you're the opulent loner you pretend to be. Easy-peasy bro! ;o)
I know full well what he means, and it's completely false. Just because I have money doesn't mean I am part of anything. I have very much been a lone wolf here, I have tried to unfund a lot of the DHF proposals I feel are not in the best interest of Hive unsuccessfully. I have my own brain and I make my own decisions. You would be shocked if you realized how far I am from the circle of anything here. I occupy the eighth witness spot because I actually know what I am doing and I am always around when the shit hits the fan or we need to update, that can't be said for many of the witnesses.
What does my HP have anything to do with free speech? I am the most downvoted person here, you don't see me crying about free speech. Free speech does not mean free rewards.
Well, it wasn't entirely false. Did you achieve to read with total attention when he said:
"Most people didn't amass fortunes running bidbots. I dunno much about backdoor deals, but you and wolfie joined the oligarchy when the bidbots folded, so something was arranged off chain."
Yeah, I agree with that and I've been able to see and confirm it. However, I have also seen how you have not sought support for that lone crusade with the right people and the right communities that could help. Most likely so as not to lose the privileges and support that the current plutocracy gives you and has given you to this day.
No one is denying that you have your own brain and you make your own decisions. And it's exactly why @valued-customer bothered to suggest you that you might be able to help to combat and alleviate this other kind of obvious abuse that HW is doing if you only wanted to use your HP properly.
What is nothing more than mingle exclusively among the current plutocracy and keep having the support & votes of that rancid oligarchy with the greatest HP and voting power to put you and mantain you in that privileged eighth witness spot, right?
@valued-customer already explained it clearly to you at the beginning of this thread. Read it again if you didn't understand the relationship between your HP, your influence and voting power and what you could achieve in favor of free speech.
Ah, C'mon bro. You have been heavily downvoted only by @transisto and @newsflash because of your personal vendetta with him. And the rest, the few other downvotes anyone have given you, have been when you have behaved like a real asshole, spreading everywhere your own downvotes and those of @buildawhale arbitrarily and without any criteria that was supported by anyone else. That's why no one has seen you ever crying over anything related to free speech.
Sure thing.
How you got it, for one thing. But I'll say no more about that because I haven't seen you profiteer since the bidbots mostly ended, so I'm trying to move on, and as @por500bolos says, am suggesting you use your HP to defend free speech that is being suppressed with flags. You aren't flagged anything like @por500bolos is, because the flags flown on his content are a substantial percentage of his stake. Anyway, you're well able to withstand flags and keep the tokens rolling in, unlike him and others here.
Just imagine if those flags were reducing your income to pennies, or even nothing at all, like they do to many people being censored on Hive. You'd be gone in a flash. That's censorship in action on Hive. Hive being your golden egg-laying goose (if, as you've stated, you're not part of the censorship ring paying minions to suppress speech here) you'd be wise to defend free speech, because that is all that keeps Hive tokens worth anything at all, and is the only thing that could make the price of your tokens rise, by attracting users and investment.
I don't blame you for being financially prudent, but I don't think you're being prudent allowing people to be flagged off the platform, because the community being here is the only thing that gives your tokens value at all. If you've been paying attention, censorship is increasing, and will continue to until Hive becomes intolerable to censors. That will be the end of your pipeline to money on Hive, unless you build a community strong enough to defend it.
Finally, I don't know you personally, and certainly have mistaken some things about you. I have been surprised not to be flagged by you, which is why I've bothered to mention these things to you at all. It's probably too late to reverse the trend sinking Hive into oblivion, but I won't give up on it until I have to. All that will take is KYC to go online, however, and I am confident that is coming regardless of who wins the coming election. Musk will be all for it, and so will Zuckerborg. They'll benefit from it, but it will destroy Hive.
Dollars aren't going to survive it anymore than Hive tokens will. A vibrant community of Hive creators could be enough to keep that KYC from destroying Hive, the internet, and the USA, by politically opposing that KYC.
Of course, that would take a lot of work, and it's easier just to sell the tokens before that rolls out and invest in something that will retain value during war and famine. We'll see, won't we?
I beg to differ. I’ve been hit with $400 flags and all my posts and my curation was flagged for over a year. I couldn’t even vote how I chose without those users getting downvoted to zero as a result.
I am not the police of this platform, that falls to Hive Watchers as they are the ones being paid for it. If you haven’t noticed I stopped selectively voting well over a year ago and only vote burn posts now. For a better part of a year I was forced to limit my votes to the stabilizer posts. There are 1.6 million other accounts you can also hold accountable for this none of which I assume are performing to your expectations. It’s been clear to me for a while I have little to no say regardless of how much HP I have.
It would probably be more accurate to say that "policing" is something you - or others - say you don't want to do. But that's how the witnesses are understood. As what else? If your stake makes you a player in the upper ranks of policing, there's nothing you can do about being seen as such. Either you are a high-ranking witness or you are not. If you are, expectations are placed on you. You can reject them, but then you would also have to give up your position as a witness. Why don't you do it? If you are not interested in policing, you could give up your position as a Witness. What's stopping you?
First off, I have countered more abuse than anyone, it was my thing for many years here. If you don't know that already, then you probably don't know me very well.
Second, being a witness has nothing to do with countering abuse or anything but protecting the blockchain, producing blocks, and auditing and approving code. Everything else is a bonus.
Don't be so vain. If you have countered abuse, and you have done it well, and what you've done can be held up to your highest possible standards, congratulations to you.
Nothing to say against keeping the blockchain and features functioning.
Of course being a witness has something to do with countering abuse, you just described yourself as a long-time abuse fighter. And as I said, there's absolutely nothing you can do about the fact that the users here perceive you that way, whether you like it or not. Especially since the functioning of a technique inevitably collides with the soft factors of interaction, as there is no collision-free space.
It is merely a verbally convenient separation between function and consequence of function that you are making here.
If you're tired of it, I understand, but don't sell me slogans.
I'm not, I'm merely explaining something you apparently are not aware of.
I'm not selling you slogans, the simple fact is a witness is not a do everything you feel like them doing job. A witness has a very specific job, abuse fighting, patting you on the back, making you feel good, hanging out drinking beers, writing posts about flowers in their garden, are not part of that job. Doing more than just protecting the blockchain and producing blocks is great, but that's not what a witness is, they are not the police you call when someone misbehaves. This is a common misconception about what witnesses are.
Are you a technician? If so, you are someone who keeps the technology you are responsible for up and running with your expertise and the use of hardware and software.
You are paid to maintain a server that enables blockchain transactions. Okay.
So far, so good.
But what makes you a "witness"? What makes you a spokesperson for the blockchain?
Since when are technicians the politicians of a platform if they have not previously agreed that a certain interface should be established between them and the user community? Ergo, you are doing politics, because why am I voting for you or voting you out?
Should my judgement of your performance be based on the fact that you maintain a server that continues to facilitate transactions? Hardly.
Your performance is measured by the changes in the code. And since the code is inevitably related to issues such as the features that create an impact among the actors (all users of the blockchain), your issues are inevitably political in nature. So I'll say a third time: there's nothing you can do about it.
Otherwise, you could save yourself the whole Witness act, couldn't you? You could be a "technician" who keeps things running in the background, gets paid for it and that's it. But it's not like that, you all have to decide how the next hard fork will play out. So you're more than just technicians, you're politically active.
Logic dictates since you are politically active, you cannot resort to nothing. You have to take responsibility as a politician. If you don't want that, you cannot be a "witness". That's all I am saying.
P.S. So if you want to keep your crypto income, but you don't want to do politics anymore because you're either tired of your job or don't really understand it yourself, you're not entitled to that crypto income. Of course, if your view is diluted by the fact that there are enough opportunists to keep you in your position, you are the only person who either gives in to the seduction that you are legitimately elected or you think that your political fatigue is a reason to give up your income.
I'm the only witness fighting abuse. You are barking up the wrong tree. But I still disagree "fighting abuse" is in the witness job description, I bet if you ask around they will all agree. You can probably just realize that when you notice none of them do.
I am not barking but enjoying to talk to you. And wanting to have a reasonable dialogue.
Let me ask you again: since the code is inevitably related to issues such as the features that create an impact among the actors (all users of the blockchain), your issues are inevitably political in nature, you still disagree?
"Fighting abuse" doesn't need to be a job description since your work implies it. Is it correct that you want to protect your source of income? If it is, then taking measures against abuse or hostile attacks is the right approach. You agree? If you stop caring about your source of income, is it correct then to quit your job?
Yeah, they stopped doing that. And in disagreeing that this is their job, and as a consequence in stopping to do that, they and you need to lay down your witness position. And hand it over to more fresh folk. Why would that not be reasonable?
Can you answer my questions in a coherent way, please?
There is politics (which I never really got involved in myself) for getting votes. That isn't an excuse for lumping everything into the job description.
This is true for every stake holder, it has nothing to do with witnesses. In fact, every one who invests here needs to write posts daily, downvote abuse, upvote 10-100+ times/day, and potentially have a DHF proposal just to prevent depreciation of their relative stake.
How have I not bent over backwards answering your and other people's questions here.
Are you or are you not compensated for your witnessing activities? Do you run a server and do you participate in the voting process on planned code changes/hard forks, yes or no?
No, this does not apply to every stakeholder. I am not a witness, so I am not eligible to vote among you witnesses on planned code changes. That is different from a stakholding alone. I am in no way willing to give downvotes unless I officially want an office and would be compensated accordingly. Please read my comment here in the thread: https://hive.blog/hive-104500/@erh.germany/sdo8b1
There it becomes understandable how I view the political side on the issue of protecting the source of income.
Since I'm just a stakeholder who doesn't hold any official technical, policing, mediation/dispute resolution position, nor run a community, my hive activity is limited to exactly what I decide do with my valuable time and resources: engaging with a few of my readers and consuming a few other blogs.
If that's what you want too, not having an official position, why don't you limit yourself to your own valuable time. Only then your compensation as witness would be hard to justify, which would be logical to give up if you don't want to have any of the mentioned tasks.
I am not seeing you bending over backwards. And I really don't expect you doing such a thing. But through your words speaks a certain fatigue and annoyance. If compensation becomes such that it does not outweigh being tired of talking to people, stop talking to them, and stop being a witness, as a consequence of that.
Every stake holder is responsible for downvoting and protecting their investment. Rewards are a community consensus, not a witness decision. If you read the original white paper, it specifically mentions a crab bucket where community members are responsible for bad actors from getting out of hand. I recommend reading it.
I'm not going to go in circles about this though. You are free to think what you want.
Read that linked comment from my former response, in order to understand me - maybe afterwards you know what I am talking about and we can continue to debate. I long have understood you, and I don't agree so far.
No, "community members" aren't "responsible for bad actors" - what a bullshit piece of text; no offense against you. I've read it, be sure.
I think, however, that you lack somewhat of an understanding of politics.
I am very free in my thinking and do that anyway. LoL
If you don't want to go in circles, then don't. I freshly entered this conversation and would like it to be that way.
LOL Half a million of them are socks, and the rest have been flagged off the platform. All that's left are us, ~3k actual users as far as I can tell. Maybe 10k max if we count folks that stop by once a year. I was told years ago by a guy that he had 10k accounts all by himself. He's still here, so I bet he's got more like 100k today.
I confess I considered your bottery anathema and for that reason utterly ignored you for years. Only after we interacted when I vehemently advocated you stop flagging @joepublic and I was astonished not only to not be flagged for doing it, but you actually did stop, did my misconceptions about you slowly begin to eat away at my hubris. Then, despite my stubborn pigheadedness, against my will, suspicion that I did not know everything about you I needed to know and had misjudged you began to grow until I eventually had to concede I was the asshole. Quietly, to myself.
Being sharply corrected by your failure to be the asshole I thought you to be, I have very gradually realized you are ordinary people, and actually have principles. For so crushing my conceit I owe you a debt of gratitude.
Don't tell anyone, but I vote your witness now, and have for some time.
You take on a lot of that burden because of your principles, however, and I have seen you relent on opinion flagging in the above mentioned matter, as well as being flagged yourself. The old aphorism that free speech is fine until you shout fire in a theater has this caveat: it's a crime not to warn people when the theater is afire. Free speech is literally a matter of life and death.
Hive has lost ~1M users since we started here (I also got here in 2017). Not only does that deprecate your stake, but also might threaten your life and freedom. This world needs free speech so we can shout fire when the theater is burning, and tens of millions of people have already died because of censorship of factual medical information that convinced them to submit to experimental medical tests of devices that occasionally have lethal side effects. I am certain sure that censorship's going to get worse, as will the harms from it, unless we do something about it.
Hive can do something about censorship, but we have to support folks that are speaking out, people that dissent, even if they're wrong, because without criticism and argument we can't learn we are wrong - as I learned I was about you. I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to @por500bolos and several other creators because censorship must be opposed and dissent supported or worse things than have already happened will happen. We need all the content creators we can get, and he's being deliberately driven from the platform maliciously.
I don't want any Hive Police, and I want HW ended. I want Hive to police Hive, for better or worse. You are more aware than most the community came together to flag bidbots into the grave, so you know the community can do the flagging that needs doing, with proper incentives and code that enables it. You also have been flagged harder than anyone I know, so you know what it takes to persevere against injustice, as does @por500bolos. You have substantial stake to upvote unjustly flagged creators with, to counter flags and make them whole. You are highly respected on Hive, #8 of the witnesses.
You have stuck with Hive despite being flagged for a year, so you have grit and believe in the platform. You have reach here I can never dream of, and can get more folks to back us up. I believe you can help make opinion flagging end - if you actually agree that it is wrong. My understanding of your statements here is that you do. I know there's a lot of people here on Hive that will back you up if you make a move to champion free speech.
I act to defend creators against censorship, but I can't do it alone (LOL I can hardly do anything at all). I don't want you to do that against your better judgement, or unwillingly. I want you to do it to defend your property, your rights, and your life, because censorship is a threat to all of them, and everyone else, too. We all need free speech. I urge you to revive @freezepeach, with a delegation, or talking to @r0nd0n to see what it would take, to help Hive become what it should be: freedom from fear of censorship for good people that speak the truth as best they know it. You can stand behind that cause and never regret it.
Hive is more censored than Fakebook or Twatter. Canada censored honking trucks by seizing the bank accounts of people donating to the truckers. Financial suppression of speech is censorship. The fact the content isn't removed doesn't mean it hasn't been censored. The fact the truckers weren't executed by cops on the side of the road for honking doesn't mean they weren't censored.
Opinion flagging is censorship by every authoritative definition of censorship. It's short of double tapping to the back of the head, but the utter elimination of information isn't the definition of censorship. Suppression of speech is the definition of censorship, and that's why flags work to eliminate spam, scams, and plagiarism, because it suppresses that kind of intolerable speech. There are worse forms of censorship, as I've mentioned above, but that doesn't mean that financial suppression of speech should be tolerated on Hive.
Hive's one value is it's potential to secure free speech, and the constant financial suppression of forthright speech deprecates Hive, and prevents it from being more useful than Fakebook and Twatter, which is why society keeps using them and isn't using Hive.
Frankly, despite I know damn well I am right, I don't think it matters much anymore. Hive has squandered it's potential to create a platform that secured free speech and replaced Big Social Media by allowing opinion flagging to drive away it's users, and let scammers dominate the rewards pool, as you are well aware. Shortly Hive is going to discover what Monero has recently learned, and more, because KYC is going to be required to use the internet, and that will be the end of Hive, at least for me.
After that, all you'll have is your dollars you extracted from Hive, and the USG is going to lose it's reserve currency status, which will make dollars worthless as Turkish Lira. Hope you've invested in Renminbi, or gold, which may still have value for a while after dollars collapse. If folks had properly valued free speech perhaps Hive wouldn't be facing it's destruction, because we'd have a community of many millions that would be a political force to reckon with and an existentially valuable resource - free speech - that they'd defend by defending Hive from destruction by KYC that is surely coming, now that we have squandered our community for a few dollars that will soon be just as worthless as Weimar Deutschmarks.
I’m not going to go back and forth on this for the next week. With Canada their money was stolen, on Hive this can never happen as no one can take anything from your wallet. Post rewards are not yours until the community has decided what it is worth at the end of 7 days.
I’ll agree the voting is not always fair and that’s the same with everything in life. Sometimes it just sucks and there certainly are favorites.
There is no way Hive is more censored than Facebook, I call bullshit.
I haven’t really extracted dollars from Hive. I’ve pretty much only held it over the almost seven years of being here and it is not my biggest bag by a long shot. I am primarily a BTC holder. Any fiat I have is mostly in stocks. I am positioned in such way inflation has little impact on me. In fact my Hive is the most sensitive to inflation due to its stagnant performance.
That being said, I am not an advocate of opinion flagging and downvotes are way over exaggerated as they are extremely rare.
I deeply appreciate your substantive reply. I don't think you know how much.
Neither is your money in your bank account yours. That's how Canada could tell the banks to take it. If you haven't read your bank's TOS carefully to the last detail, you should. Once you deposit your funds in the bank it is their money, and all you have is a promise that they'll pay you back.
Until they don't because they don't have it, because interest rates rose after the bank spent the money on bonds and is now underwater. Every bank in America is currently insolvent. The Fed is almost $1T upside down. The FDIC can't do shit about that level of bankruptcy, and guess what happens to dollars if the USG prints enough to cover it? Maybe the USG will just borrow the money from the bankrupt banks to cover their losses. That'll fix it. /s
Flags are taxes, and taxation is theft, as I've pointed out elsewhere.
As for stonks, you don't own any stonks either. The DTCC (Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation) actually has the stonks you bought. You have a receipt.
(my bold for emphasis)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_%26_Clearing_Corporation
IOW, they have the stonks you think you bought, and what they give you is a promise they'll take good care of your stonks, let you have the dividends, and proceeds if you sell them (or sell the receipts, as it were). That bullshit about 'exchange'? The stonks never leave their custody. They just make notations in their files as to whom they'll be stealing the stonks from if they don't actually pay you. Because they have them, and you don't. They do add this on that page:
Let me quote Klaus Schwab:
Maybe you can get your stocks if you request them, though, and then you'll actually have them instead of a receipt. Might wanna get right on that, because this system was arranged by big banks, that are all insolvent, which I bet that ~$87T will cure just fine.
I know these things because they took my property. I want you to know them before they take your property like they took mine, so maybe you can do something about it before they do. I am well aware it's not fair, because I literally walked away from everything I had ever owned, my free and clear acreage and 4 bd house, my rental property, my trucks, tools, 4 bay shop, 5 bank accounts, and several brokerage accounts, and my dogs (whom I miss most of all, because they actually loved me) in borrowed socks, because I didn't own any socks. Not even one sock. All I got in return was bad credit, a bad back, and worse teeth. Maybe just is a better word than fair, actually.
Have a look at @por500bolos's account. Have a look at @baah's account. Have a look at @logiczombie's account. I bet you'll be able to count over 1000 flags just on those three accounts. @baah is a troll, but he's also a sincere and prolific poster of facts - or he was before he recently vanished. @logiczombie and @por500bolos are critical commentators on various topics, including Hive, or they were before @logiczombie quit posting (and have a look at my account, instead of taking my word that I don't use tokens as money, so don't care about this because of my personal finances. I invest in goodwill because it can't be taxed, stolen, or rot. It only goes away when someone dies, and I'm old). @por500bolos is still here.
There are hundreds and hundreds more examples since 2017. We've lost ~1M accounts since then, and the vast majority of those accounts were flagged unfairly unjustly and ragequit. It's probable that many of them did something wrong, plagiarized, or posted images without attribution, or comment spammed, or said something mean. Maybe some of them would be a net loss and we're better off without them (although they probably have friends they would have marketed Hive to). But we had a chance to have a vibrant community and blew it by letting them be flagged off the platform.
I sincerely recommend you either strive to enable Hive to be a robust enough platform to effectively resist destruction by KYC (which the USG is going to require, sooner than later, to save the children, or terrorists, or smth), or exchange your tokens for something that will retain value when Hive dies from KYC without such robust community.
Please note that I used the word recommend. I'm not telling you what to do. I just don't think there are any other courses of action with potential to succeed, and am sharing information in support of my recommendations. Bail-in's can take all your money in the bank. Every bank in America is underwater because they invested in bonds and interest rates went up, turning their assets into liabilities, and your TOS with the bank explains the money you deposit in the bank is their money now. History is replete with examples of people not getting their money from banks.
You don't actually own any stonks. The DTCC has all the stonks you think you own, and you have their promise to pay. You don't have to take my word for it. DYOR, while you still can extract your assets from the clutches of the thieves that have them in hand (and I know for a fact they're thieves and are not trustworthy). Invest in assets you actually own, can hold in your own hands, and defend from thieves. Or better yet, communities of people you can depend on.
If Hive can't exert nominal political power to prevent the USG from requiring KYC to use the internet, Hive will die. Big Social Media is basically the CIA and is all for KYC (and killing Hive). I don't see any way to prevent that from happening except to get a lot of users fast. In fact, I think it's too late. I'd love for you to prove me wrong about that.
But, maybe hurry, before they take it all from you, like they did me. I know why justice matters, even if it's just a DV. When you stand for justice, you have a sound foundation of principle you can count on to keep you from a slippery slope. Once you start sliding down that slope it's hard to stop, and we're going like 60.
Define 'removed'. I'm aware of posts and comments that have become unavailable on Hive, at least through any mechanism I am able to deploy. My posts aren't so objectionable as to merit such removal/disappearance, though. Flagging isn't just 'not rewarding' content. Flags are taxes, which is theft. No one guarantees Toyota will sell any trucks. But Toyota sells a lot of trucks in America, and make good money doing so, just like a popular creator getting a lot of upvotes. BYD, the Chinese electric automaker, however, isn't going to be able to sell it's cars in America, because the USG is going to downvote them and eliminate the upvotes purchasers of their vehicles would be giving them.
Censorship doesn't have to remove the content, when it can just remove the creator with flags. Flags aren't no vote, aren't not rewarding content. They're taxes that take away what others have given. And, of course, taxation is theft.
Rewards are not yours until they are in your wallet. The community decides the value of content during the seven days. This is how Hive works. It certainly isn’t always fair but it is hardly my fault.
¿The community decides? ¿What community?
Then, how would you call what a single MoFo in Hive can do against "the community" through a simple whimsical downvote?
Wouldn't you call it a blatant theft from both the authors and their content curators of the potential money they could have made if this MoFo had not acted in the same way that the government of Canada did with its citizens sympathetic to the truckers' cause?
The rewards money and payouts may well not be yours until after seven days. But if suddenly a big SoB comes on the sixth day or before to prevent it reach your wallet and take them away from you, isn't this a damn robbery?
Paychecks aren't ours until they're taxed either, eh? I once claimed 9 Eskimo wives on my W-4 (the form you fill out when starting a job so the employer knows what to withhold from your pay for taxes) so that the USG took nothing from my paychecks. Really pissed off my employer, too. I knew I wouldn't have a tax liability at the end of the year, so didn't want the USG to hold my money for me until then.
I needed my money. It was my money and I wanted it then. However, all this dodges the point, that taxation takes our money before we get it, just like flags on Hive. More importantly, taxation is theft. Flags are theft. They're the same.
I am not blaming you at all for other people's flags.
However, flags are taxes, as demonstrated by the Toyota analogy. If you like the product you buy it. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. Flags tax the purchases that have been made of the content creators have been upvoted on, just like taxes on Toyota sales.
Taxation is theft. I'm agin' it. It is necessary to flag spam, scams, and plagiarism, because those things are existential threats to Hive, so in those cases they are necessary and justified by the fact that they are countering criminal predation on society.
It's not theft if you're stealing your shit back.
There's more than mere pandering at stake. People get flagged into oblivion. Opinion flags are the stench of death on Hive that permeates the entire cryptosphere. Flags should be limited to actual abuse, not objectionable opinions. If we don't defend objectionable speech we will have only virtue signaling - and that doesn't merit any defense whatsoever.
And that is why I like you so much.
Well, I am certainly objectionable.
Thanks!
HAHAHA! Yeah you’ve got a rad style my dude, nothing wrong with objectionable…at least that’s an ethos 🤣
Maybe the code leaving potential abuse fighters vulnerable to opinion flags is the actual problem. People getting flagged for criticizing whales have a damn good reason not to criticize whales.
The code is the problem, because it allows opinion flagging. Not until the oligarchy cut a deal with Marky and Wolfie did the bidbots end (mostly), and that reveals the real problem is plutocracy, not whether people care. People flagged into penury can't afford to care.
People that are flagged for their forthright speech here are given nothing to care about. When fakebook and twatter are BETTER THAN HIVE for speaking objectionable opinions on, Hive has failed miserably to promote free speech.
Free speech is infinitely more valuable than money. Push it up. Pushing spam, scams, and plagiarism down isn't all we need to do. We need criticism, even if it's criticizing us, because that's how we can learn how to be better than we have been. Even if it's wrong, it isn't spam, scams, or plagiarism and deserves protection.
People care when they have a reason to care. If all they can get for posting is $.30, why should they care? Give forthright speech a reason to care.