Is Hive Watcher's doing a good job?
Do you think it is worth $350/day $290/day for Hive Watcher's to deal with ~$20/day in abuse?
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Do you think it is worth $350/day $290/day for Hive Watcher's to deal with ~$20/day in abuse?
Choose an option below!
Hey Steemcleaners, why are you flagging this comment? You have been flagging this author for YEARS, despite he posts original content DAILY.
You, Steemcleaners, are the problem that has kept Hive from outcompeting Fakebook and Twatter by rewarding content creators such as @por500bolos, because you chase them off the platform.
Knock it off. You're censors. Thought police.
You are the problem Hive needs to solve.
LOL
That's a masterful video. I quite enjoyed it.
Opinion flagging is the enemy.
Edit: also, I miss @dwinblood's posts. I wish there were more of them.
Hah. I'll get around to it again. Have some family medical things going on. I will post again though.
All my best to you and yours.
Thanks!
That account is just what HW uses when they don't have a justified reason to downvote anything.
It pays to have idiots delegate and die off somewhere so they get to keep the free stake. But, don't you dare ask for delegations expiring like the way witness votes do.
Finally. It took years to get that.
I do not autovote, delegate my stake, or in any way fail to personally exercise my contributions to the community. If this is a social media platform, society - us - needs to be interacting, not bots. That being said, I still get autovotes from my good friends that have died. I would rather get belittled and scathingly criticized by @stevescoins than autovoted though. I miss him.
Automation needs to be on timers, and some provision needs to be made so that people's assets can be delivered to their heirs upon their demise. I have to confess that I am touched every time I review my upvotes and see my friend there. It's weird how automation is impacting our interactions nowadays. Delegations certainly need to expire. You're absolutely right.
I've seen and heard of enough cases where non-abusive behavior or simple mistakes were crushed by HW, especially for new accounts, to vote NO on this poll.
I think that system is too automated. I see too many cases of a person doing one sketchy thing and then get rewarded with a lifetime of downvotes, even months after having changed their act. I really don't feel that the cost to the DHF is in proportion to the benefits delivered.
Community will weed out naturally to keep a happy, healthy system.
Bad elements always arrive to scam or try skim profits on the sly.
It is clear that exactly such elements have arisen to take advantage of the funding availed HW, and are harming the Hive community profitably. Wherever governance is undertaken, such malign actors seek to gain whatever power and wealth is expended for their own aggrandizement, not just on Hive, but everywhere and always.
HW needs to go. It is demonstrable that just replacing bad apples will not make the barrel rotten apple proof. As long as there's an apple barrel, rotten apples will lie and cheat to spoil it. I'm confident that backdoor deals are passing funds unseen to advance goals of bad actors, and the visible financial expenditures for HW are but part of the actual sums involved, as graft is a constant hazard of corruptible institutions.
Better for the community and it's rightful forthright expression of it's concerns and exposure of hazards we need to be informed of would be a mechanism to support posts and posters that are wrongfully flagged, IMHO. Profiteers gain no benefit from strengthening the community against such Mammon Hunters, but rather from institutions like HW that attack the community and prey on our number. We should cut them off and stop funding attacks on us, and instead fund armor against their attacks on us that profiteering plutocrats constantly seek to profitably employ to take our wealth for themselves.
When observing actual hives in nature, there are no bees running around destroying the comb and taking the honey. The hive builds the comb, and the honey provides for their entire community. That is the kind of work that should be funded, not destruction of free speech, but protection of it.
Using bots is always destructive, connect to each person it's social media.
I completely agree. I do not and never have autovoted, or used bots to follow trails, or post comments. This is social media, and people are society. People need to be interacting with people here.
That's the actual point.
Tested in Steem did not like, dumped almost immediately, yes actual contact is more meaningful. Real life in person even better !LOLZ
Not sure! But Hive Watchers are doing great to keep HIVE safe and secure from spammers and scammers ;)
Absolutely no. We saw to many times their poor decisions and false alarms making great people leaving Hive for good.
🤔 😂😂😂🤣🤣 please just stay away and don't comment on my post's talking shit it's not going to work I'm not a kid I'm a grown man with kid's tell Ab Steve Gina and blocktrades I said hello 👋🏾
I say no.
@thedrummerboy
Dann klick doch oben in der Abstimmung noch auf "No". ;)
Keiner hat mit ja gestimmt 🤣🤣🤣
Würde mich auch wundern wenn das einer mit Verstand macht. Die Truppe hasst jeder außer sie sich selber, sie sind ihre größten Fans. 😜
USE #BILPCOIN OR #BPC TO EARN BILPCOIN
By @hivewatchers @adm @logic @cwow2 @solominer @steemcleaners and gang join Blurt it has no downvotes
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive
https://blurt.blog/burn/@bilpcoinbpc/vdqyh-the-dark-side-of-hive-hivewacthers-and-gang-are-killing-and-burn-time
STOP THE DOWNVOTE ABUSE ON HIVE
Via Tenor
Credit: amigoponc
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
lolztoken.com
ERROR: Joke failed.
@bpcvoter3, You need more $LOLZ to use this command. The minimum requirement is 0.0 LOLZ.
You can get more $LOLZ on HE.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Total waste of money.
They drive away good users in their pursuit of policing.
Badly operated.
Bad communication.
Terrible people skills.
Total waste of money.
At $350 per day we could be running marketing campaigns.
Advertising.
Community contests.
All for less than this.
so what are you ideas on how the community does anti-abuse without hivewatchers?
will you do it?
it is just a handful voluntary people - the same since half a decade - who contribute their free time for hive anti-abuse (even countered harmful flags from flag wars @freezepeach) - and got no payment
we also do not like Hivewatchers, but they at least do something, where the big community does not care for itself..
thoughts ?
If it's voluntary why is it costing $350 a day??? Where is the money going.
I have no problem with countering abuse but i've seen HW drive away regular users by targeting them with downvotes for stupid reasons.
No explanation, no warning and no talking to them.
A proper set up would have an account with delegated HP for downvotes.
A specific reporting structure with a list of offences. Standardized so it's clear when and why a person is infringing on the community.
Report an infringement to the team.
First a friendly warning and show them where the problem lies.
If still breaking guidelines a small downvote maybe 10% of the reward.
If persistent offending then increase the downvote but a clear and specific structure on how it would work with open channels of communication.
I have no problem with a person being paid to run a service like this but it needs to be ran as a proper full time service and professionally done not just throwing downvotes around the place and refusing to interact with people in a proper way.
I've been here 7 years myself and have seen a lot over that time. I was targeted by whales back in the early days and almost driven off the platform with downvotes. They should be used sparingly and only for real abuse. Downvotes are harmful and have driven away a lot of users over the past 7 years.
It is voluntary, cuz we (and you if you voluntarily join countering abuse) dont earn anything.
We also get none of the 350$ a day for Hivewatchers ("we" is just decentralized voluntary community members) but if you want to stop Hivewatchers, we need more voluntary help
I fight against abuse when and where i see it.
Not silly stuff or newbies making mistakes.
I will flag if i see plagiarized posts or straight up circle voting.
I'm happy to help hive in anyway possible to weed out users abusing the system or hurting our community but not flagging for the sake of it.
If nobody is getting the $290 per day then where is this funding going to??
I'm just a guy like you..
I'd also prefer abolishing HW - it's not a new discussion
but I am against those newly wanting to abolish it since only a few days, cuz their farming sheme got busted by HW
Going to the wallets of the 2 supposed "Hivewatchers".
Chances are, it's just one person with a fake partner.
Not all transactions are onchain. There is too much obfuscation of how HW applies it's funding. There are too many good posters that are oppressed without cessation, literally 1M users driven from the platform since I've been here!
The influence of affluence has derailed HW's mission. Sketchy flags are flown against creators that post things objectionable to oligarchs on Hive, despite those posts not being spam, scams, or plagiarism. Bizarrely, when discussing posters chased off, claims are made that users don't promote Hive on other platforms, but people that post here what they also post elsewhere HW calls that plagiarism. That is exactly bass ackwards, as censorial platforms like Fakebook and Twatter send people looking for alternatives and posting their content to lots of platforms, Hive censors them instead of avails them a safe and rewarding place to post it.
I am confident that backdoor payments off chain are rewarding the more blatant opinion flagging HW continues - for years - on users that may have reposted their OWN CONTENT, or for some other excuse, despite those posters posting original content here. I donate a percentage of my author rewards to several of them, but I have to keep moving to new ones as they give up and quit posting here.
HW is flagging content creators off the platform, and nothing is worse for Hive as a community of content creators. Funding for flagging should be eliminated, and funding - as I am doing by donating 1/4 of my author rewards to flagged authors - should be promoting free speech improperly flagged instead. Hive needs to build it's community, not flag it until the creators find Twatter and Fakebook preferable. The bizarre humiliation ritual people are forced to undergo to get HW off their back is utterly unacceptable. It is blatantly malevolent. There are innumerable similar features of HW practices, and the certainty of off chain encomiums paying for opinion flags has tainted Hive with a stench that will take years to wash off when we do start defending free speech instead of flagging objectionable speech into the dust.
Spam, scams, and plagiarism should be met with appropriate response FROM THE COMMUNITY which has been empowered to defend itself. The funding availed HW should be DEFENDING free speech instead of crushing it.
Hi @niallon11
It would be probably better to check up on the actual proposal and discover a bit about the HW's actual activity. It is 290/day not 350/day.
For the marketing campaign, there is already a proposal running called "Value Plan".
https://hivel.ink/valueplan/@valueplan/q3-value-plan-proposal
If you have marketing ideas, you are welcome to forward them to @guityparties.
Regarding, themarkymark.
He has considered himself a Hive Blockchain martyr who has always done all the abuse fighting himself (that is limited to triggering his downvote bot on some accounts to auto-clear rewards on day 6) while no one else did any abuse fighting. At the same time, he has never done a single investigation on a single post to look for plagiarism, identity theft, etc.
He has been running the same tape "Steemcleaners/Hivewatchers do not deserve anything and I do all abuse fighting" since 2016. Our project/proposal is not the only one. He attacks all proposals. Maybe it's because he tried a proposal once and it never got a pass.
Since 2016, we have already explained in detail to him multiple times what tasks abuse fighting constitutes. The last time was in January.
Wow "only" 290$.
For what?
Please answer it in my Post from yesterday, hope you read it and Answer the other Questions, too.
For blacklisting people like me, for example. In 2023, February, i have big problem with these people, or, maybe, 1-3 people, that claims to be hive watchers here. The discussion then is going about 2 months with these people, and they blocked , or blacklisted me, just because i use AI to beauty my posts. Now, a year after, PeakD has implemented AI for all the pople here, without no problems. But I'm still on the blacklist, so... That's are our great Salvation, the Hive Watchers here.
If you wish, you can look in my history of comments, and you will see, what a big-big discussion has been there, on many posts, and they blacklisted my comments too, so, they have that power... We don't. And we should use this as a free and decentralized community. It is not, it is just an illusion, what we are thinking the Hive is.
So, take a look on my journey and look at my comments about a year ago, and you will see, what a problems we have here, and who are these people in Hive Watchers. They use the power of others to punish self wishes and whistles. They blocked me before they have any of project there about how to use AI, or anything about AI. They just blacklisted people, just because some of them, don't like AI. Therefore, I have stop posting on Hive. They expect that all people should known all what they (self's) want. And that's b.s.
They create just problems here on Hive, but they claim they are like the gods here. They don't listen to us, people. If they think, someone make a mistake, they should first contact that person, and say, hey, look, do not use this, or do not do this, because of this. And if someone keep doing that thing, then blacklisting them, but not, without warning, without anything, just go and blacklisting all people, for example, who have used AI. Today, anything is AI. So what now? do we close the Hive?
We need to un-power this Hive watchers team, and create another one, with voting, and now polling too. Not just blindly keep giving power to these people in that hivewatchers tema what is now.
Folks, remove the voting and your HP given to this people in Hive Watchers tema, immediately, before they destroy the Hive. Great people go away from Hive, everyday. They go to blurp.blog, or bastyon.com, or minds.com, ...
Guys, we need to come to an agreement and simply delete this hive watchers team (2-3 people) from the tron forever. Otherwise we risk the title of this post.
Here are a few more posts from back then, where we had, so to speak, a very, very big discussion, but, to no avail, they just do what they want:
Post they made 2 months after they blacklisted me because before, they didn't have one:
https://peakd.com/ai/@hivewatchers/ai-generated-content-not-original-content#@elameadows/re-obsesija-sdc4mc
Then, this:
https://peakd.com/hive-157935/@emma-h/human-says-no#@obsesija/re-emma-h-rrg5uu
And this post:
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@whatsup/the-great-ai-debate-and-hive-watchers#@valued-customer/re-obsesija-rrndw8
and this one:
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@whatsup/the-great-ai-debate-and-hive-watchers#@galenkp/re-obsesija-rrjanf
... and this one too:
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@edicted/ai-content-is-too-easy#@arc7icwolf/re-obsesija-202338t163639458z
Please look at all the comments there, there are a lot of comments (mine are hidden almost everywhere, because the big HW team made it so that other people shouldn't see my comments, too much information from me about who they are, etc what they do.)
Greetings
I miss your posts.
Post moar.
Thanks!
I can't post, because, I'm on the blacklist, and, if I would post anything, all of my rewards would be removed, automatically.
Hope, some days, we have that decentralized group of people, or accounts, that represent real Hivewatchers, voted from people to people.
Or maybe, we create another Hive ecosystem, outside of this one.
We just need the developers should be aware of this problems too, and hope, that they would see the difficult of the problems HW create on Hive.
But, I have been worked on my own web site for food:
https://kuvaj-peci.top
you can visit it. Recipes are just in Serbian, for now, but the Web site is multilang, so the recipes would be translated on some point.
Many thanks
I am happily surprised to note you remain active here despite the censorship that reduces your ability to benefit from using the platform. If it would help incentivize you to remain here, I can add you to the few censored voices I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to.
You have but to let me know. I deeply appreciate folks here that aren't pandering suckups, that state forthrightly such facts they are in possession of, that rattle the bars of the financial cage Hive has become dominated by the censorship ring the oligarchy uses to repress Hive growth so they don't become little fish in a larger pond IRL stake would snap up like the minnows Hive whales are, as Steem demonstrated.
Avarice is the enemy of societal felicity, here as everywhere. It is good to find principled people in an environment filled with sycophants and coprophagic parasites worming their way up whales' alimentary tracts.
Edit: I can't translate your site yet using Brave, that provides some translation into English. Let me know if you manage to get some translation going so I can make heads or tails out of the content you provide there. I'm sure I'd be interested in it.
@cheetah used to do that. It was vastly preferable. However, there is a group that is censoring Hive users, and @cheetah didn't cut it for them. They are throwing their stake at flagging people they don't like, not spam, scams, and plagiarism, and they've all but killed Hive - to keep the rewards pool for themselves.
HW and Steemcleaners are some of their weapons, and everything you've said is truthful and factually correct. I was part of those confrontations back in 2023, and I firmly support your statements to this day.
Hi @valued-customer many thanks for your support in this regards.
I hope that people who gave them power, do the un-powering some day, and that we can create a more decentralized one, voting with pools now, and not just with voting power.
I miss that Hive community too, because, i invest many years to build my reputation, and my profile here, but, because of them, i stop posting, because, they have me on their blacklist.
Hope some days the HW is gone, and the new generation of decentralized HW would be created, and then, i will post again.
Many thanks for all.
Greetings
You originally asked and got paid $350/day (blindly and immediately, even before you had a single comment on your proposal) until enough people made a stink about it and you reduced it to keep the gravy train going.
Hi hivewatchers.
Regardless of $290 or $350 where is that funding going to and why would you need $105K per year to downvote a few posts???
I've reread your proposal and it's vague. Without clear guidelines, instructions or help for people wanting to deal with your team. The website has not been developed and overall it's a small group of people exerting control over the community as it sees fit often to the detriment of that same community.
Where is the breakdown of these costs.
Why is there no clear list of infringements and related penalties.
Why is there no proper structure for reporting, disputing and process.
Where is the breakdown of value saved for the community as you claim.
Where is the cost of all the decent users that have been driven away by your downvotes.
Just zeroing rewards from users is not helping the platform or it's community.
We only have about 5000 active bloggers so these costs are absurd and this set up is not working for the majority of the community. The only reason that it has funding is due to @smooth and @blocktrades voting it.
I don't care about themarkymark. I'm not a huge fan of his. He has done both good and bad for hive but i agree with him on this current topic and have never been afraid to speak my mind. It's not my first year on hive and i've seen the damage that flagging has done over those years setting us back years in terms of user growth and retention.
This is false. There are many other voters. If I unvoted it, for example, it would still be funded (which would not be the case if @blocktrades were the only remaining vote).
Furthermore, if either or both of us changed our vote, there is no way to know how other stakeholders might respond by also changing their votes, potentially changing the outcome yet again.
Your conception of how DHF voting works is a bit off.
Firstly, good to see you still around. Been a long time since i saw your name pop up in a comment section.
Fair enough. Your 6m (inc proxy) wouldn't drop it below the return proposal.
I do know how it works and i did say due to you both supporting it.
But blocktrades 23M and your 6M is roughly 80% of the support for the proposal from just two accounts. Not very reflective of community or decentralized.
Now i can't predict the outcomes but if you both stopped supporting it then it's hard to see the proposal getting over the return limit.
What you're ignoring is that there may well be other large stakeholders would vote for it if one or both of us didn't.
I can tell you for sure that I don't bother to vote for some proposals even if I support them for the simple reason that I see they're already approved and they don't need my vote. If they started to drop down too much on the list, I'd vote for them.
Anyway, the point I'm making is that voting is dynamic and you can't look at static votes as telling the conclusive "reason" why it is or isn't approved.
You are falsely denying you and blocktrades have controlling stake, just as BlackRock does of corporations, without have the majority of stake.
Suckups pander to you whales. Quit being disingenuous.
I own about 1.5% of Hive.
And BlackRock at al gain controlling interest in stock corporations with as little as 5-10%. Investors largely follow leaders that demonstrate facility attaining ROI, which is why it's calleda controlling interest, rather than a majority interest.
By Blackrock et al, you mean Blackrock + Vanguard + State Street + Fidelity + Other similar.
Even excluding the others, they usually own about 20%+
The first three. It's true they usually have a larger stake than 10%. Different solutions needed for different problems. Hive is remarkably stable with ~3 dozen whales, at least since I've been aboard, and that creates plenty of opportunity to shmooz and coordinate, which I am confident you do well, as does Dan.
You can believe what you like but I don't coordinate anything with anyone. I have only the vaguest notion of who the whales are at this point, other than BT, who I don't know well and don't communicate with regularly.
Well, as I noted, appearances can be deceiving. I appreciate your cordial reply.
Yeah why are you so different
Judging after some appearance you fucking fascists asshole
That is the opposite of what I said. What I said was:
Because of your misunderstanding of the meaning of language and it's consequences, while I state:
You state:
You judge yourself. It's not the fact you speak that is the problem. It's the content of your speech that reveals who you are. Perhaps you'd be less pitiable and despicable if you weren't so evil. Give it a try.
Should I quote you on how you fucked up quoting me?
No self-reflection
How are appearances deceiving? Cuz you short-mindedly judge
Go ahead and hunt me "evil" away from this platform and my country, join the fascists.
I dont give a fuck, that's why I am here.
Yes. If you quote me, you will have to at least see what I did say, even if you don't understand it. At least that will give you an opportunity to attempt comprehension, which clearly has escaped you at the moment.
here, you are talking as if I was hivewatcher
spamming me with your projections, defending fascists openly telling me they want to hunt me out of the country, judge me for downvoting such an "opinion" (as you call it)
and then crying about my replies to your spam, defending me
fuck you, projecting matter-less being
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdn61z
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdn8ca
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdn8wx
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdnp6d
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdnpmx
my condensed reply:
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@woelfchen/re-valued-customer-sdqqfw
Instead of quoting me, you tried to link to the comments, but because there's so many comments you just linked to the original post by Marky. All the links above just go to his OP.
Anyway, don't bother. I have realized you're in crisis and are having a psychotic break. What you need to is get together with a real human being you love and trust, and quit deranging yourself by ranting at your computer. Please get the help you need.
No, they dont.
They go to the exact comment, do not open them in new tabs.
Stop projecting onto me, you psychopaths, I can insult and hate your actions without being as you fascistically project the world to be.
You will be shocked even more, how people will continue to react to your out-of-control normopathy.
So far he's the only one making sense, you are very much deranged by interjecting that reply that triggered you into screeching at whatever hypocrisy or deception you thought you noticed yet you can't even put into a words, let alone a succinct response and you're so deranged that you believe you can project people as persons separate from their actions, because hating their actions doesn't mean you hate the person, the clickytyclack making sense is a sure sign you're deranged and projecting. Image thinking you're the 'good guy' though..
lol you just do exactly what you compain about
you can't even put into word what you want to communicate to me without all the degenerated crap words in between
anyway, you do not even need to try, cuz I will not argue about any random projections (no matter if by you or anyone else) - I got more important stuff to do than dispute with giant babys on the internet WHO IS RIGHT - you havent even understood the basics and still want to press your worldview onto others like god-damn fascists
keep on projecting, who even cares
you can go to whoever and project onto them some hivewatcher shit, while even knowing better that I have zero to do with it
you can do that with random other people, you can talk to some random "AI"
just leave me alone, shut up with ur craps, I dont want to hear it
and now don't come to me and cry how I want to shut you up.
I cannot and I do not have this power. But I can still say: shut the fuck up
Leave me alone, I have not allowed you to harass and coerce me into interaction.
It is my right to refuse and you have absolutely no power over me.
psycho
Especially if I don't give a fuck and especially after @valued-customer defends people that literally threathen to hunt me off HIVE and even out of MY COUNTRY GERMANY (no worry, I will leave this gulag voluntarily)
Ever heard of free speech?
Shut up and fuck you all, assholes
Ever heard of free speech?
but what do I even tell you, you cannot even differentiate between persons and their actions
you are just like fascists, just turning it around
go join the fascist "anti-fascists" and hunt and kill people who you believe to be evil
go party in your extinction crap
just leave us alone
keep screeching, but I wont care anymore, I also stopped with anti-abuse after @valued-customer asking me so kindly
good luck
I realize you surmount ESL to muddle through communicating in English here, which is admirable. The inability to understand my statements isn't just from the language barrier, however.
You've clearly suffered some kind of psychotic break recently, which is apparent in the dramatic and vivid changes in your posts and comments. You project your deranged hallucinations onto me without any rational basis and I just have no edumacation in dealing with florid psychosis, so can only respectfully suggest you seek such loving family or friends as are available to provide care you need.
I hope you reach out to people you love and that love you, so you get through this and recover your reason, which I knew you to express in the past.
Well said!
!WEED !MEME !PGM
Credit: atheistrepublic
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
please finally just suck his dick and leave me alone
go jerk with some fascists germans
you are a great fit
I will also not argue with you about your fucked up projections
go choose someone else you can whine on about hivewatcher
We could have done something better than Hivewatcher, YEARS AGO, but you idiots did not care
Keep whining
you probably also have the psychotic break - as you just keep projecting
truly an absolutely perfect fit, probably the ultimate fit with @indextrader24
best luck, leave me alone, I dont give a fuck about your hope
you will get what you deserve
FAKE HIVE POLICE
HIVE IS DEAD
HIVE IS ONE BIG FARM
!LOL !WEED !MEME
https://hive.blog/hive-104387/@bpcvoter3/se19g2
Downvoted BY HIVE FARMERS
6 days ago in #life by slobberchops (81)$0.00
Reply 3
Sort: Trending
[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 4 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
NO DOWNVOTES FOR MARKY MARK'S SELF VOTING !WEED
https://hive.blog/life/@slobberchops/re-gogreenbuddy-sdr1wb
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive
https://www.reddit.com/r/stoptheabuseonhive/
https://peakd.com/hive-164833/@bilpcoinbpc/you-have-all-witnessed-this-account-being-downvoted-to-a-negative-reputation-for-no-reason
SHAME ON YOU ALL SAD PEOPLE WHO SCAM LIE AND FARM HIVE AND HIVERS
[-]acidyo (82) 3 months ago
Haha at "I shouldn't make commercial" :D Maybe something to worry about when you have more youtube subscribers! Quite interesting content though, these things should get more subs on there and here.
$4.28
1 vote
Reply
[-]gogreenbuddy (67) 3 months ago
Yeah thought that was funny too
$4.54
4 votes
gogreenbuddy: $4.47
acidyo: $0.06
holbein81: $0.01
koleso: -$0.00
https://hive.blog/life/@gogreenbuddy/i-had-to-give-up-on-my-gabion-fencing-too-much-work
@themarkymark @buildawhale farm
HE MAKES CURATION REWARDS WITH ALL HIS ALT ACCOUNTS BURNING TOKENS LIKE THIS DOES NOT TAKE OLD TOKENS IT MINTS NEW ONES AND BURNS THEM
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
https://www.bilpcoin.com/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
Credit: fun.miner
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
and again:
fuck you
ever heard of free speech?
the only reason I am here
to say even more fuck you to people like you, who try to do their psycho games
FAKE HIVE POLICE
HIVE IS DEAD
HIVE IS ONE BIG FARM
!LOL !WEED !MEME
https://hive.blog/hive-104387/@bpcvoter3/se19g2
Downvoted BY HIVE FARMERS
6 days ago in #life by slobberchops (81)$0.00
Reply 3
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[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 4 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
NO DOWNVOTES FOR MARKY MARK'S SELF VOTING !WEED
https://hive.blog/life/@slobberchops/re-gogreenbuddy-sdr1wb
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive
https://www.reddit.com/r/stoptheabuseonhive/
https://peakd.com/hive-164833/@bilpcoinbpc/you-have-all-witnessed-this-account-being-downvoted-to-a-negative-reputation-for-no-reason
SHAME ON YOU ALL SAD PEOPLE WHO SCAM LIE AND FARM HIVE AND HIVERS
[-]acidyo (82) 3 months ago
Haha at "I shouldn't make commercial" :D Maybe something to worry about when you have more youtube subscribers! Quite interesting content though, these things should get more subs on there and here.
$4.28
1 vote
Reply
[-]gogreenbuddy (67) 3 months ago
Yeah thought that was funny too
$4.54
4 votes
gogreenbuddy: $4.47
acidyo: $0.06
holbein81: $0.01
koleso: -$0.00
https://hive.blog/life/@gogreenbuddy/i-had-to-give-up-on-my-gabion-fencing-too-much-work
@themarkymark @buildawhale farm
HE MAKES CURATION REWARDS WITH ALL HIS ALT ACCOUNTS BURNING TOKENS LIKE THIS DOES NOT TAKE OLD TOKENS IT MINTS NEW ONES AND BURNS THEM
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
https://www.bilpcoin.com/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
Credit: orionvk
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
Not gonna read all that but nice try.
!WEED !MEME !PGM
Credit: filosof103
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
your degenerated attention span wont let you
go back to your extinction idiots
I'm sure that makes sense in your moronic sense.
Why are idiots such epic losers?
FAKE HIVE POLICE
HIVE IS DEAD
HIVE IS ONE BIG FARM
!LOL !WEED !MEME
https://hive.blog/hive-104387/@bpcvoter3/se19g2
Downvoted BY HIVE FARMERS
6 days ago in #life by slobberchops (81)$0.00
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[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 4 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
NO DOWNVOTES FOR MARKY MARK'S SELF VOTING !WEED
https://hive.blog/life/@slobberchops/re-gogreenbuddy-sdr1wb
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive
https://www.reddit.com/r/stoptheabuseonhive/
https://peakd.com/hive-164833/@bilpcoinbpc/you-have-all-witnessed-this-account-being-downvoted-to-a-negative-reputation-for-no-reason
SHAME ON YOU ALL SAD PEOPLE WHO SCAM LIE AND FARM HIVE AND HIVERS
[-]acidyo (82) 3 months ago
Haha at "I shouldn't make commercial" :D Maybe something to worry about when you have more youtube subscribers! Quite interesting content though, these things should get more subs on there and here.
$4.28
1 vote
Reply
[-]gogreenbuddy (67) 3 months ago
Yeah thought that was funny too
$4.54
4 votes
gogreenbuddy: $4.47
acidyo: $0.06
holbein81: $0.01
koleso: -$0.00
https://hive.blog/life/@gogreenbuddy/i-had-to-give-up-on-my-gabion-fencing-too-much-work
@themarkymark @buildawhale farm
HE MAKES CURATION REWARDS WITH ALL HIS ALT ACCOUNTS BURNING TOKENS LIKE THIS DOES NOT TAKE OLD TOKENS IT MINTS NEW ONES AND BURNS THEM
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
https://www.bilpcoin.com/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
Credit: shaungerow
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
Here's a marketing idea: quit flagging our marketing team. Everyone that posts content here AND elsewhere draws eyeballs here. That's marketing.
Quit killing the golden goose.
SCUMBAGS
4 days ago in #life by tarazkp (84)$0.00
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[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 2 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
Team marky @gogreenbuddy part of the @markymark @buildawhale @usainvote @apeminingclub @makerhacks @upmyvote @punkteam @rollingbones @theycallmemarky @memess @blockheadgames @leovoter @ipromote gang
MARKY STOP THE DOWNVOTE ABUSE STOP SELF VOTING WITH ALL THESE ALT ACCOUNTS
You could literally do nothing and be ahead by $270/day. They deal with less than $20/day of abuse yet they asked for $350/day.
so we need more decentralized flagging again
We need a lot of things, just people need to care.
THIS
yeah, so just abandoning anti-abuse and not more people joining anti-abuse efforts (not caring) wont bring us any further
I downvote more abuse than they do on a daily basis. There is a handful of other people doing some as well, but largely most people don't want to be involved or risk losing upvotes.
I also do not like Hivewatchers
I am always downvoting when I see something, since years
I have also already witnessed Hivewatchers condemning people for wrong
Still, if we just abandon (like all the comments under your post seems to want) - we still need some kind of alternative.
maybe revive HiveFlagRewards? redistribute the HBD that go to Hivewatchers currently to HiveFlagRewards ?
Do we though? We would have $270/day less sell pressure and about $20/day of abuse.
Yeah, you only care about the selling pressure, ofc
huh? I've been fighting abuse before it was cool. In fact, I still fight more abuse than they do 6 years later.
The reality is though, we are paying them $290/day (they originally got $350/day but with all the blowback they lowered it to $290/day so they still keep getting paid). They actually stop less than $20/day. If they did nothing, we would save like $270/day.
I know that Hivewatchers is more of a problem than a solution - that is nothing new since years
Still, we need SOME alternative, instead of just allowing wild west abuse (cuz noone except you and the old few faces care for anti-abuse)
with all the scammers currently whining against Hivewatchers and cheering for the abolishment
this platform will go to dust very fast
no matter that we have 290 $ less selling pressure
wild west abuser platform is worse than 290$ selling pressure
Any abuse is easily dealt with. The simple fact most abusers have no HP to take advantage of it. Hive Watchers spends most of their days cleaning up posts for a few pennies
It is easy - if organized
All the raging germans (who cry cuz their easy way of farming rewards is gone due to HW) even advocate for ABOLISHING DOWNVOTING IN GENERAL
SO GOOD LUCK WITH THEM
and your great Hive platform that goes to complete shit
Germans didnt care about us wanting to decentralize HW, they only care about their easy rewards.
Their circlejerks.
So they suddenly want to abolish HW
Ofc Downvoting in general
So they can have their "peace and freedom" again
Good luck !
I doubt Hive Watchers does much to deal with any of it anyway, they mostly go after people farming 4 cent rewards and new users. It takes me about 2 seconds to add them to my bot to deal with it.
I dont care what you doubt.
Thousandth time: I also do not like HW - since way too long
still, noone has a better idea in this great decentralized community
Have some other better idea - make the useful idiots germans join the anti-abuse effort
decentralize it
But if you all now just rage to abolish Hivewatchers, we will soon have the whole Steem Swamp here
And every scammer from the net
You guys need to imagine that we need to give good incentives, as a platform - not only for scammers and abusers
I find it funny you think they do anything now or will do anything in the future about it.
It is more about the outside look.
I find it funny how you think your marky bot will be a good sign for decentralized selfregulation.
How will the marky bot be different to HW?
I find it funny how everyone want to abolish HW and even just DOWNVOTING in general
And somultaneously do not want to do ANY effort for anti-abuse.
(Especially looking in the german direction)
All the best !
That's not applicable to Marky. He's a DV pro.
However, I don't think most DV's on the platform are flown on abusive posts and comments. Most of it is OPINION FLAGGING which is censorship of objectionable opinions - free speech. That's got to end, or it will end Hive. Instead of promoting flagging the bullies paying censors to police free speech should be defending it. I am not naming names, but there are less than 3 dozen possibilities with the stake to do this.
They do this, I believe, to retain control of the rewards pool and enrich themselves because if Hive became a good investment for outside capital they'd lose their command of the rewards pool, just as happened to Steem, and they are also profiting from Hive being a plutocracy. For these reasons they oppress free speech on Hive covertly, to keep it small enough they can dominate the rewards pool.
Someone that cares enough about money can find out who the likely culprits are. I know for a fact there are such quid pro quo arrangements, although I cannot name the culprits and only know of one of their minions for a fact, whom I will not name to protect my source.
Hive isn't dying. It's being killed for profit, and the killers have @'s.
First we abolish HW, then Downvoting in general - the decentralized self-regulating mechanism of this blockchain itself
you can team up with the germans
all the best !
You sir are a dumbass.
I dont care, abolish what you want - make your marky bot
abolish this platform
insult everyone who does not agree
that is how a decentralized community works for sure
hive probably already dead, so unimportant anyways
all the best
I still dont like you for downvoting my frens and me :D, but cudos for having the debate at least. Im getting cancer just scimming through parts of it.
I never once downvoted you, unless you are referring to an alt. You know full well your friends deserve it.
You reported me to leo.voter for not posting finance content in Leo, I wasnt aware. @alexvan tried to tell you but you insisted on me being fully awae of leo being a finance only community.
I checked the discord, but it is such an old and small thing Im not mad for it not being on your radar.
None of my friends ever deserve a downvote. @thegrandestine was doing interesting stuff until you flagged them off the platform, cause alts = evil...
Not sure who else we bumped heads over, I always confuse you and HW :3
Umm, ok. So I didn't flag you right? Just tried to keep the community on topic right?
The one with 30+ alts spamming images chain chatting with each alt? Wow, I'm such a jerk.
I have never been part of or supported Steam Cleaners or Hive Watchers. I always disagreed with their
Technically correct, but Im not sure if it isnt even worse, Herr Blockwart
The one who spend a few ten thousand $BEE to create dozens of Tokens and Diesel Pools. Im not sure if it all collapsed cause he was never serious from the start, you foiled his plans or too little people where interested in finding out about the deeper message of his game. I think it is somewhere between all three of them or maybe he will come back and conclude what he started.
Anyways the whole story shows me that you too downvote content you dont like and try to build justifications around it, just like HW.
To be fair the only time I encountered abuse, I called the authorities (HW) and they did their job. Im generally for a voluntary Scam/Abuse/indecent-content police, not the wild west method. Im just disappointed in the execution when you look into the details of the cases.
Im sure this line of work can cook your brains and as most veteran Hivians brains are fried hard already - I think you fare rather well all things considered.
So? That doesn't give him a license to spam garbage everywhere and farm rewards.
This is absolute garbage and a waste of space on the chain much less the Internet. There is no reason in the world this should be rewarded. This is a small sample of the thousands of occurrences I found his garbage.
Yes he did micro upvotes with his alts. The rewards he made from this are about 0.1% of what he put into the game.
It all boils down that you think his content is garbage. I would love to flag the things on hive that I think are garbage. I would downvote a post/comment of a whale every time he uses the word web3. Would be a fun world, but it is not the world we live in.
I honestly dont see how we can progress as a blockchain if we got some Boomers downvoting everything they think is garbage. Well maybe this is why hive seems stuck in 2018.
There is a difference between someone posting a real authentic comment with the word web3 and someone posting 1000 shitty automated comments that look like someone shit on the screen.
Boomer? LOL, alright bro we done. Go find someone else's shoulder to cry on.
HIVE IS DEAD
4 days ago in #life by tarazkp (84)$0.00
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[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 2 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
Team marky @gogreenbuddy part of the @markymark @buildawhale @usainvote @apeminingclub @makerhacks @upmyvote @punkteam @rollingbones @theycallmemarky @memess @blockheadgames @leovoter @ipromote gang
MARKY STOP THE DOWNVOTE ABUSE STOP SELF VOTING WITH ALL THESE ALT ACCOUNTS
You have a point.
you are an coward blind follower
a fascist
projecting hivewatcher crap onto old anti-abuse members (while you know I've been against hivewatcher since it inception)
you successfully hunted me off the platform (I am stopping all the support and will leave, as you want it)
and then go into victimhood
and claim about censorship, while I have no power to censor you
-> you dont even know what censorship is
dumbass
That's the problem. You are advocating forcing people to act as you want them to. That is not freedom.
Freedom is allowing the market to give them something to care about. Allowing profiteering from curation rewards shows how this works, by creating incentives that have nothing to do with actual content to promote curation. When people gain upvotes for forthright speech they have a reason to care about forthright speech.
The problems of profiteering, circle jerks, spam, scams, and plagiarism, are all examples of how bad incentives are coded into Hive. A plutocracy creates incentives to seek money above all else. This deranges economic systems that we should want to float all the boats in the community, rather than rewarding pirates to take everything they can.
Hive needs to code incentives better, and eliminate incentives for malign action, like profiteering or pandering.
This is the solution to all the problems we face. We need to support free speech, and particularly criticism, because that is what makes free speech valuable to society. When we properly code incentives into Hive, we won't have to pay people to suppress bad actors, because people will defend Hive to defend their benefit from it.
People that gain nothing from Hive have no reason to defend it, so they don't. That is the problem.
This.
Eliminate the censorship ring that HW and Steemcleaners are paid to be. They're killing Hive daily.
Shut up
Stop spamming me with 1000000 comments
Most people didn't amass fortunes running bidbots. I dunno much about backdoor deals, but you and wolfie joined the oligarchy when the bidbots folded, so something was arranged off chain.
That being said, I have expressed my opinion to you without restraint, and you have not flagged me for it, which I respect. I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to support authors that are being permanently opinion flagged, and if you promoted free speech with your phat bags a lot fewer of the content creators that eventually give up fighting that financial censorship would give up.
I zealously promote free speech - and particularly OBJECTIONABLE speech - and hope you will too. Hive has not succeeded in competition with blatantly censored web2 platforms because it does not protect free speech, which you and other oligarchs could do. I can only conjecture that were Hive to become a profitable investment legacy financial players would buy up tokens and take power in the plutocratic governance model Hive employs, and you and your mates don't want to lose your pond you're the big fish in today.
Perhaps you could set me straight if I'm wrong.
However, whether you even deign to notice I exist or not, you could defend creators that are opinion flagged, like @por500bolos, who adamantly refuses to be flagged off the platform. Hive NEEDS forthright speech and CRITICISM to succeed.
Please defend and promote Hive by defending objectionable/critical free speech and countering opinion flags.
Thank you.
I am part of no oligarchy or anything I’m as much of a loner here as you can get.
As for flagging for opinion, that’s not my style. What others do is out of my hands.
Well, appearances certainly can be deceiving, and I pointed out all I can do is conjecture from what I see. I agree that what others do isn't in our hands, but as a coder you certainly can consider mechanisms to promote free speech and deprecate profiteering.
I don't think that's really your 'style' either, but thought it was worth an ask.
Hive has more free speech than anywhere, there is no guarantee you will be rewarded though but your content won't be removed.
Ah, C'mon Marky! Don't be so modest. You know very well what @valued-customer means when he correctly says that you are a member of the oligarchy in Hive. After all, you occupy the eighth position in that plutocratic hierarchy for quite some time.
Oh! and another thing mate. Also stop being so elusive by avoiding responding directly to what @valued-customer has suggested you should do. };)
You see? He's telling you that with your high HP, your obvious privileges/support and your coding skills, you could really make a difference if you wanted even if you're the opulent loner you pretend to be. Easy-peasy bro! ;o)
I know full well what he means, and it's completely false. Just because I have money doesn't mean I am part of anything. I have very much been a lone wolf here, I have tried to unfund a lot of the DHF proposals I feel are not in the best interest of Hive unsuccessfully. I have my own brain and I make my own decisions. You would be shocked if you realized how far I am from the circle of anything here. I occupy the eighth witness spot because I actually know what I am doing and I am always around when the shit hits the fan or we need to update, that can't be said for many of the witnesses.
What does my HP have anything to do with free speech? I am the most downvoted person here, you don't see me crying about free speech. Free speech does not mean free rewards.
Well, it wasn't entirely false. Did you achieve to read with total attention when he said:
"Most people didn't amass fortunes running bidbots. I dunno much about backdoor deals, but you and wolfie joined the oligarchy when the bidbots folded, so something was arranged off chain."
Yeah, I agree with that and I've been able to see and confirm it. However, I have also seen how you have not sought support for that lone crusade with the right people and the right communities that could help. Most likely so as not to lose the privileges and support that the current plutocracy gives you and has given you to this day.
No one is denying that you have your own brain and you make your own decisions. And it's exactly why @valued-customer bothered to suggest you that you might be able to help to combat and alleviate this other kind of obvious abuse that HW is doing if you only wanted to use your HP properly.
What is nothing more than mingle exclusively among the current plutocracy and keep having the support & votes of that rancid oligarchy with the greatest HP and voting power to put you and mantain you in that privileged eighth witness spot, right?
@valued-customer already explained it clearly to you at the beginning of this thread. Read it again if you didn't understand the relationship between your HP, your influence and voting power and what you could achieve in favor of free speech.
Ah, C'mon bro. You have been heavily downvoted only by @transisto and @newsflash because of your personal vendetta with him. And the rest, the few other downvotes anyone have given you, have been when you have behaved like a real asshole, spreading everywhere your own downvotes and those of @buildawhale arbitrarily and without any criteria that was supported by anyone else. That's why no one has seen you ever crying over anything related to free speech.
Sure thing.
How you got it, for one thing. But I'll say no more about that because I haven't seen you profiteer since the bidbots mostly ended, so I'm trying to move on, and as @por500bolos says, am suggesting you use your HP to defend free speech that is being suppressed with flags. You aren't flagged anything like @por500bolos is, because the flags flown on his content are a substantial percentage of his stake. Anyway, you're well able to withstand flags and keep the tokens rolling in, unlike him and others here.
Just imagine if those flags were reducing your income to pennies, or even nothing at all, like they do to many people being censored on Hive. You'd be gone in a flash. That's censorship in action on Hive. Hive being your golden egg-laying goose (if, as you've stated, you're not part of the censorship ring paying minions to suppress speech here) you'd be wise to defend free speech, because that is all that keeps Hive tokens worth anything at all, and is the only thing that could make the price of your tokens rise, by attracting users and investment.
I don't blame you for being financially prudent, but I don't think you're being prudent allowing people to be flagged off the platform, because the community being here is the only thing that gives your tokens value at all. If you've been paying attention, censorship is increasing, and will continue to until Hive becomes intolerable to censors. That will be the end of your pipeline to money on Hive, unless you build a community strong enough to defend it.
Finally, I don't know you personally, and certainly have mistaken some things about you. I have been surprised not to be flagged by you, which is why I've bothered to mention these things to you at all. It's probably too late to reverse the trend sinking Hive into oblivion, but I won't give up on it until I have to. All that will take is KYC to go online, however, and I am confident that is coming regardless of who wins the coming election. Musk will be all for it, and so will Zuckerborg. They'll benefit from it, but it will destroy Hive.
Dollars aren't going to survive it anymore than Hive tokens will. A vibrant community of Hive creators could be enough to keep that KYC from destroying Hive, the internet, and the USA, by politically opposing that KYC.
Of course, that would take a lot of work, and it's easier just to sell the tokens before that rolls out and invest in something that will retain value during war and famine. We'll see, won't we?
I beg to differ. I’ve been hit with $400 flags and all my posts and my curation was flagged for over a year. I couldn’t even vote how I chose without those users getting downvoted to zero as a result.
I am not the police of this platform, that falls to Hive Watchers as they are the ones being paid for it. If you haven’t noticed I stopped selectively voting well over a year ago and only vote burn posts now. For a better part of a year I was forced to limit my votes to the stabilizer posts. There are 1.6 million other accounts you can also hold accountable for this none of which I assume are performing to your expectations. It’s been clear to me for a while I have little to no say regardless of how much HP I have.
It would probably be more accurate to say that "policing" is something you - or others - say you don't want to do. But that's how the witnesses are understood. As what else? If your stake makes you a player in the upper ranks of policing, there's nothing you can do about being seen as such. Either you are a high-ranking witness or you are not. If you are, expectations are placed on you. You can reject them, but then you would also have to give up your position as a witness. Why don't you do it? If you are not interested in policing, you could give up your position as a Witness. What's stopping you?
First off, I have countered more abuse than anyone, it was my thing for many years here. If you don't know that already, then you probably don't know me very well.
Second, being a witness has nothing to do with countering abuse or anything but protecting the blockchain, producing blocks, and auditing and approving code. Everything else is a bonus.
Don't be so vain. If you have countered abuse, and you have done it well, and what you've done can be held up to your highest possible standards, congratulations to you.
Nothing to say against keeping the blockchain and features functioning.
Of course being a witness has something to do with countering abuse, you just described yourself as a long-time abuse fighter. And as I said, there's absolutely nothing you can do about the fact that the users here perceive you that way, whether you like it or not. Especially since the functioning of a technique inevitably collides with the soft factors of interaction, as there is no collision-free space.
It is merely a verbally convenient separation between function and consequence of function that you are making here.
If you're tired of it, I understand, but don't sell me slogans.
I'm not, I'm merely explaining something you apparently are not aware of.
I'm not selling you slogans, the simple fact is a witness is not a do everything you feel like them doing job. A witness has a very specific job, abuse fighting, patting you on the back, making you feel good, hanging out drinking beers, writing posts about flowers in their garden, are not part of that job. Doing more than just protecting the blockchain and producing blocks is great, but that's not what a witness is, they are not the police you call when someone misbehaves. This is a common misconception about what witnesses are.
Are you a technician? If so, you are someone who keeps the technology you are responsible for up and running with your expertise and the use of hardware and software.
You are paid to maintain a server that enables blockchain transactions. Okay.
So far, so good.
But what makes you a "witness"? What makes you a spokesperson for the blockchain?
Since when are technicians the politicians of a platform if they have not previously agreed that a certain interface should be established between them and the user community? Ergo, you are doing politics, because why am I voting for you or voting you out?
Should my judgement of your performance be based on the fact that you maintain a server that continues to facilitate transactions? Hardly.
Your performance is measured by the changes in the code. And since the code is inevitably related to issues such as the features that create an impact among the actors (all users of the blockchain), your issues are inevitably political in nature. So I'll say a third time: there's nothing you can do about it.
Otherwise, you could save yourself the whole Witness act, couldn't you? You could be a "technician" who keeps things running in the background, gets paid for it and that's it. But it's not like that, you all have to decide how the next hard fork will play out. So you're more than just technicians, you're politically active.
Logic dictates since you are politically active, you cannot resort to nothing. You have to take responsibility as a politician. If you don't want that, you cannot be a "witness". That's all I am saying.
P.S. So if you want to keep your crypto income, but you don't want to do politics anymore because you're either tired of your job or don't really understand it yourself, you're not entitled to that crypto income. Of course, if your view is diluted by the fact that there are enough opportunists to keep you in your position, you are the only person who either gives in to the seduction that you are legitimately elected or you think that your political fatigue is a reason to give up your income.
I'm the only witness fighting abuse. You are barking up the wrong tree. But I still disagree "fighting abuse" is in the witness job description, I bet if you ask around they will all agree. You can probably just realize that when you notice none of them do.
I am not barking but enjoying to talk to you. And wanting to have a reasonable dialogue.
Let me ask you again: since the code is inevitably related to issues such as the features that create an impact among the actors (all users of the blockchain), your issues are inevitably political in nature, you still disagree?
"Fighting abuse" doesn't need to be a job description since your work implies it. Is it correct that you want to protect your source of income? If it is, then taking measures against abuse or hostile attacks is the right approach. You agree? If you stop caring about your source of income, is it correct then to quit your job?
Yeah, they stopped doing that. And in disagreeing that this is their job, and as a consequence in stopping to do that, they and you need to lay down your witness position. And hand it over to more fresh folk. Why would that not be reasonable?
Can you answer my questions in a coherent way, please?
There is politics (which I never really got involved in myself) for getting votes. That isn't an excuse for lumping everything into the job description.
This is true for every stake holder, it has nothing to do with witnesses. In fact, every one who invests here needs to write posts daily, downvote abuse, upvote 10-100+ times/day, and potentially have a DHF proposal just to prevent depreciation of their relative stake.
How have I not bent over backwards answering your and other people's questions here.
Are you or are you not compensated for your witnessing activities? Do you run a server and do you participate in the voting process on planned code changes/hard forks, yes or no?
No, this does not apply to every stakeholder. I am not a witness, so I am not eligible to vote among you witnesses on planned code changes. That is different from a stakholding alone. I am in no way willing to give downvotes unless I officially want an office and would be compensated accordingly. Please read my comment here in the thread: https://hive.blog/hive-104500/@erh.germany/sdo8b1
There it becomes understandable how I view the political side on the issue of protecting the source of income.
Since I'm just a stakeholder who doesn't hold any official technical, policing, mediation/dispute resolution position, nor run a community, my hive activity is limited to exactly what I decide do with my valuable time and resources: engaging with a few of my readers and consuming a few other blogs.
If that's what you want too, not having an official position, why don't you limit yourself to your own valuable time. Only then your compensation as witness would be hard to justify, which would be logical to give up if you don't want to have any of the mentioned tasks.
I am not seeing you bending over backwards. And I really don't expect you doing such a thing. But through your words speaks a certain fatigue and annoyance. If compensation becomes such that it does not outweigh being tired of talking to people, stop talking to them, and stop being a witness, as a consequence of that.
Every stake holder is responsible for downvoting and protecting their investment. Rewards are a community consensus, not a witness decision. If you read the original white paper, it specifically mentions a crab bucket where community members are responsible for bad actors from getting out of hand. I recommend reading it.
I'm not going to go in circles about this though. You are free to think what you want.
Read that linked comment from my former response, in order to understand me - maybe afterwards you know what I am talking about and we can continue to debate. I long have understood you, and I don't agree so far.
No, "community members" aren't "responsible for bad actors" - what a bullshit piece of text; no offense against you. I've read it, be sure.
I think, however, that you lack somewhat of an understanding of politics.
I am very free in my thinking and do that anyway. LoL
If you don't want to go in circles, then don't. I freshly entered this conversation and would like it to be that way.
LOL Half a million of them are socks, and the rest have been flagged off the platform. All that's left are us, ~3k actual users as far as I can tell. Maybe 10k max if we count folks that stop by once a year. I was told years ago by a guy that he had 10k accounts all by himself. He's still here, so I bet he's got more like 100k today.
I confess I considered your bottery anathema and for that reason utterly ignored you for years. Only after we interacted when I vehemently advocated you stop flagging @joepublic and I was astonished not only to not be flagged for doing it, but you actually did stop, did my misconceptions about you slowly begin to eat away at my hubris. Then, despite my stubborn pigheadedness, against my will, suspicion that I did not know everything about you I needed to know and had misjudged you began to grow until I eventually had to concede I was the asshole. Quietly, to myself.
Being sharply corrected by your failure to be the asshole I thought you to be, I have very gradually realized you are ordinary people, and actually have principles. For so crushing my conceit I owe you a debt of gratitude.
Don't tell anyone, but I vote your witness now, and have for some time.
You take on a lot of that burden because of your principles, however, and I have seen you relent on opinion flagging in the above mentioned matter, as well as being flagged yourself. The old aphorism that free speech is fine until you shout fire in a theater has this caveat: it's a crime not to warn people when the theater is afire. Free speech is literally a matter of life and death.
Hive has lost ~1M users since we started here (I also got here in 2017). Not only does that deprecate your stake, but also might threaten your life and freedom. This world needs free speech so we can shout fire when the theater is burning, and tens of millions of people have already died because of censorship of factual medical information that convinced them to submit to experimental medical tests of devices that occasionally have lethal side effects. I am certain sure that censorship's going to get worse, as will the harms from it, unless we do something about it.
Hive can do something about censorship, but we have to support folks that are speaking out, people that dissent, even if they're wrong, because without criticism and argument we can't learn we are wrong - as I learned I was about you. I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to @por500bolos and several other creators because censorship must be opposed and dissent supported or worse things than have already happened will happen. We need all the content creators we can get, and he's being deliberately driven from the platform maliciously.
I don't want any Hive Police, and I want HW ended. I want Hive to police Hive, for better or worse. You are more aware than most the community came together to flag bidbots into the grave, so you know the community can do the flagging that needs doing, with proper incentives and code that enables it. You also have been flagged harder than anyone I know, so you know what it takes to persevere against injustice, as does @por500bolos. You have substantial stake to upvote unjustly flagged creators with, to counter flags and make them whole. You are highly respected on Hive, #8 of the witnesses.
You have stuck with Hive despite being flagged for a year, so you have grit and believe in the platform. You have reach here I can never dream of, and can get more folks to back us up. I believe you can help make opinion flagging end - if you actually agree that it is wrong. My understanding of your statements here is that you do. I know there's a lot of people here on Hive that will back you up if you make a move to champion free speech.
I act to defend creators against censorship, but I can't do it alone (LOL I can hardly do anything at all). I don't want you to do that against your better judgement, or unwillingly. I want you to do it to defend your property, your rights, and your life, because censorship is a threat to all of them, and everyone else, too. We all need free speech. I urge you to revive @freezepeach, with a delegation, or talking to @r0nd0n to see what it would take, to help Hive become what it should be: freedom from fear of censorship for good people that speak the truth as best they know it. You can stand behind that cause and never regret it.
Hive is more censored than Fakebook or Twatter. Canada censored honking trucks by seizing the bank accounts of people donating to the truckers. Financial suppression of speech is censorship. The fact the content isn't removed doesn't mean it hasn't been censored. The fact the truckers weren't executed by cops on the side of the road for honking doesn't mean they weren't censored.
Opinion flagging is censorship by every authoritative definition of censorship. It's short of double tapping to the back of the head, but the utter elimination of information isn't the definition of censorship. Suppression of speech is the definition of censorship, and that's why flags work to eliminate spam, scams, and plagiarism, because it suppresses that kind of intolerable speech. There are worse forms of censorship, as I've mentioned above, but that doesn't mean that financial suppression of speech should be tolerated on Hive.
Hive's one value is it's potential to secure free speech, and the constant financial suppression of forthright speech deprecates Hive, and prevents it from being more useful than Fakebook and Twatter, which is why society keeps using them and isn't using Hive.
Frankly, despite I know damn well I am right, I don't think it matters much anymore. Hive has squandered it's potential to create a platform that secured free speech and replaced Big Social Media by allowing opinion flagging to drive away it's users, and let scammers dominate the rewards pool, as you are well aware. Shortly Hive is going to discover what Monero has recently learned, and more, because KYC is going to be required to use the internet, and that will be the end of Hive, at least for me.
After that, all you'll have is your dollars you extracted from Hive, and the USG is going to lose it's reserve currency status, which will make dollars worthless as Turkish Lira. Hope you've invested in Renminbi, or gold, which may still have value for a while after dollars collapse. If folks had properly valued free speech perhaps Hive wouldn't be facing it's destruction, because we'd have a community of many millions that would be a political force to reckon with and an existentially valuable resource - free speech - that they'd defend by defending Hive from destruction by KYC that is surely coming, now that we have squandered our community for a few dollars that will soon be just as worthless as Weimar Deutschmarks.
I’m not going to go back and forth on this for the next week. With Canada their money was stolen, on Hive this can never happen as no one can take anything from your wallet. Post rewards are not yours until the community has decided what it is worth at the end of 7 days.
I’ll agree the voting is not always fair and that’s the same with everything in life. Sometimes it just sucks and there certainly are favorites.
There is no way Hive is more censored than Facebook, I call bullshit.
I haven’t really extracted dollars from Hive. I’ve pretty much only held it over the almost seven years of being here and it is not my biggest bag by a long shot. I am primarily a BTC holder. Any fiat I have is mostly in stocks. I am positioned in such way inflation has little impact on me. In fact my Hive is the most sensitive to inflation due to its stagnant performance.
That being said, I am not an advocate of opinion flagging and downvotes are way over exaggerated as they are extremely rare.
I deeply appreciate your substantive reply. I don't think you know how much.
Neither is your money in your bank account yours. That's how Canada could tell the banks to take it. If you haven't read your bank's TOS carefully to the last detail, you should. Once you deposit your funds in the bank it is their money, and all you have is a promise that they'll pay you back.
Until they don't because they don't have it, because interest rates rose after the bank spent the money on bonds and is now underwater. Every bank in America is currently insolvent. The Fed is almost $1T upside down. The FDIC can't do shit about that level of bankruptcy, and guess what happens to dollars if the USG prints enough to cover it? Maybe the USG will just borrow the money from the bankrupt banks to cover their losses. That'll fix it. /s
Flags are taxes, and taxation is theft, as I've pointed out elsewhere.
As for stonks, you don't own any stonks either. The DTCC (Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation) actually has the stonks you bought. You have a receipt.
(my bold for emphasis)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_%26_Clearing_Corporation
IOW, they have the stonks you think you bought, and what they give you is a promise they'll take good care of your stonks, let you have the dividends, and proceeds if you sell them (or sell the receipts, as it were). That bullshit about 'exchange'? The stonks never leave their custody. They just make notations in their files as to whom they'll be stealing the stonks from if they don't actually pay you. Because they have them, and you don't. They do add this on that page:
Let me quote Klaus Schwab:
Maybe you can get your stocks if you request them, though, and then you'll actually have them instead of a receipt. Might wanna get right on that, because this system was arranged by big banks, that are all insolvent, which I bet that ~$87T will cure just fine.
I know these things because they took my property. I want you to know them before they take your property like they took mine, so maybe you can do something about it before they do. I am well aware it's not fair, because I literally walked away from everything I had ever owned, my free and clear acreage and 4 bd house, my rental property, my trucks, tools, 4 bay shop, 5 bank accounts, and several brokerage accounts, and my dogs (whom I miss most of all, because they actually loved me) in borrowed socks, because I didn't own any socks. Not even one sock. All I got in return was bad credit, a bad back, and worse teeth. Maybe just is a better word than fair, actually.
Have a look at @por500bolos's account. Have a look at @baah's account. Have a look at @logiczombie's account. I bet you'll be able to count over 1000 flags just on those three accounts. @baah is a troll, but he's also a sincere and prolific poster of facts - or he was before he recently vanished. @logiczombie and @por500bolos are critical commentators on various topics, including Hive, or they were before @logiczombie quit posting (and have a look at my account, instead of taking my word that I don't use tokens as money, so don't care about this because of my personal finances. I invest in goodwill because it can't be taxed, stolen, or rot. It only goes away when someone dies, and I'm old). @por500bolos is still here.
There are hundreds and hundreds more examples since 2017. We've lost ~1M accounts since then, and the vast majority of those accounts were flagged unfairly unjustly and ragequit. It's probable that many of them did something wrong, plagiarized, or posted images without attribution, or comment spammed, or said something mean. Maybe some of them would be a net loss and we're better off without them (although they probably have friends they would have marketed Hive to). But we had a chance to have a vibrant community and blew it by letting them be flagged off the platform.
I sincerely recommend you either strive to enable Hive to be a robust enough platform to effectively resist destruction by KYC (which the USG is going to require, sooner than later, to save the children, or terrorists, or smth), or exchange your tokens for something that will retain value when Hive dies from KYC without such robust community.
Please note that I used the word recommend. I'm not telling you what to do. I just don't think there are any other courses of action with potential to succeed, and am sharing information in support of my recommendations. Bail-in's can take all your money in the bank. Every bank in America is underwater because they invested in bonds and interest rates went up, turning their assets into liabilities, and your TOS with the bank explains the money you deposit in the bank is their money now. History is replete with examples of people not getting their money from banks.
You don't actually own any stonks. The DTCC has all the stonks you think you own, and you have their promise to pay. You don't have to take my word for it. DYOR, while you still can extract your assets from the clutches of the thieves that have them in hand (and I know for a fact they're thieves and are not trustworthy). Invest in assets you actually own, can hold in your own hands, and defend from thieves. Or better yet, communities of people you can depend on.
If Hive can't exert nominal political power to prevent the USG from requiring KYC to use the internet, Hive will die. Big Social Media is basically the CIA and is all for KYC (and killing Hive). I don't see any way to prevent that from happening except to get a lot of users fast. In fact, I think it's too late. I'd love for you to prove me wrong about that.
But, maybe hurry, before they take it all from you, like they did me. I know why justice matters, even if it's just a DV. When you stand for justice, you have a sound foundation of principle you can count on to keep you from a slippery slope. Once you start sliding down that slope it's hard to stop, and we're going like 60.
Define 'removed'. I'm aware of posts and comments that have become unavailable on Hive, at least through any mechanism I am able to deploy. My posts aren't so objectionable as to merit such removal/disappearance, though. Flagging isn't just 'not rewarding' content. Flags are taxes, which is theft. No one guarantees Toyota will sell any trucks. But Toyota sells a lot of trucks in America, and make good money doing so, just like a popular creator getting a lot of upvotes. BYD, the Chinese electric automaker, however, isn't going to be able to sell it's cars in America, because the USG is going to downvote them and eliminate the upvotes purchasers of their vehicles would be giving them.
Censorship doesn't have to remove the content, when it can just remove the creator with flags. Flags aren't no vote, aren't not rewarding content. They're taxes that take away what others have given. And, of course, taxation is theft.
Rewards are not yours until they are in your wallet. The community decides the value of content during the seven days. This is how Hive works. It certainly isn’t always fair but it is hardly my fault.
¿The community decides? ¿What community?
Then, how would you call what a single MoFo in Hive can do against "the community" through a simple whimsical downvote?
Wouldn't you call it a blatant theft from both the authors and their content curators of the potential money they could have made if this MoFo had not acted in the same way that the government of Canada did with its citizens sympathetic to the truckers' cause?
The rewards money and payouts may well not be yours until after seven days. But if suddenly a big SoB comes on the sixth day or before to prevent it reach your wallet and take them away from you, isn't this a damn robbery?
Paychecks aren't ours until they're taxed either, eh? I once claimed 9 Eskimo wives on my W-4 (the form you fill out when starting a job so the employer knows what to withhold from your pay for taxes) so that the USG took nothing from my paychecks. Really pissed off my employer, too. I knew I wouldn't have a tax liability at the end of the year, so didn't want the USG to hold my money for me until then.
I needed my money. It was my money and I wanted it then. However, all this dodges the point, that taxation takes our money before we get it, just like flags on Hive. More importantly, taxation is theft. Flags are theft. They're the same.
I am not blaming you at all for other people's flags.
However, flags are taxes, as demonstrated by the Toyota analogy. If you like the product you buy it. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. Flags tax the purchases that have been made of the content creators have been upvoted on, just like taxes on Toyota sales.
Taxation is theft. I'm agin' it. It is necessary to flag spam, scams, and plagiarism, because those things are existential threats to Hive, so in those cases they are necessary and justified by the fact that they are countering criminal predation on society.
It's not theft if you're stealing your shit back.
There's more than mere pandering at stake. People get flagged into oblivion. Opinion flags are the stench of death on Hive that permeates the entire cryptosphere. Flags should be limited to actual abuse, not objectionable opinions. If we don't defend objectionable speech we will have only virtue signaling - and that doesn't merit any defense whatsoever.
And that is why I like you so much.
Well, I am certainly objectionable.
Thanks!
HAHAHA! Yeah you’ve got a rad style my dude, nothing wrong with objectionable…at least that’s an ethos 🤣
Maybe the code leaving potential abuse fighters vulnerable to opinion flags is the actual problem. People getting flagged for criticizing whales have a damn good reason not to criticize whales.
The code is the problem, because it allows opinion flagging. Not until the oligarchy cut a deal with Marky and Wolfie did the bidbots end (mostly), and that reveals the real problem is plutocracy, not whether people care. People flagged into penury can't afford to care.
People that are flagged for their forthright speech here are given nothing to care about. When fakebook and twatter are BETTER THAN HIVE for speaking objectionable opinions on, Hive has failed miserably to promote free speech.
Free speech is infinitely more valuable than money. Push it up. Pushing spam, scams, and plagiarism down isn't all we need to do. We need criticism, even if it's criticizing us, because that's how we can learn how to be better than we have been. Even if it's wrong, it isn't spam, scams, or plagiarism and deserves protection.
People care when they have a reason to care. If all they can get for posting is $.30, why should they care? Give forthright speech a reason to care.
It's not exactly free at $350/day, though, is it?
Since 2017, when I joined the community, more than 1M accounts have joined and began posting and then been flagged off the platform. HW was not useful against the bidbots, but the community itself got rid of them when enabled to do so by tweaking DV code. Rather than fund an institution that can be - and obviously has been - corrupted to profit from attacking that ~1M users and censoring their speech on Hive, the community itself is competent to protect itself when availed the tools, as the demise of bidbots, that threatened to utterly overwhelm the platform at one point, reveals.
HW has become a tool of oppression, of censorship profiteering, and has proven the mechanism of funding is incapable of withstanding corruption and abuse. You cannot call the people of HW 'voluntary' when they're getting $350/day, which would be better spent to oppose censorship than cause it.
It is not factually correct to say the 'big community' does not care for itself. The reduction of the influence of the bidbots has proved the community does care for itself when armed to do so. The problem is that venal profiteers rise to power in a plutocracy, and Hive is a pure plutocracy in which several of the most egregious bidbotters have become entrenched in the oligarchy of top witnesses.
The solution is to fund @freezepeach and allow spam, scams, and plagiarists to be flagged by the community that has demonstrated it's willingness to do so when availed the tools in the code to do so. $350/day would go a long ways to ending opinion flagging that has cost us >1M users already, and created a stench of outrage against that injudicial censorship in the cryptosphere. That can be reversed, and free speech empowered, by coding proper tools for the community to protect itself, and funding @freezepeach to oppose opinion flagging - or Hive is doomed by it's prior (and present) flaggotry, because that reeking stench of censorship will not wash off.
I don't think Hive is doomed, because even the worst stench will wash away when time and the application of cleansing is applied, and people are suffering the censorship across the social mediascape more than ever. HW is the reason people keep trying to use web2 platforms, instead of flocking to Hive to be rewarded for speaking forthrightly. Social media has become the largest financial sector of the IRL markets in the world. Hive has been extremely poorly executed to perform so dismally in a market so obviously profitable and malevolently censored. We have a rhetorical foundation to directly reward creators for their forthright content that clearly has the ability to be extremely financially rewarding if executed properly, but instead has performed worse than the most oppressive Big Social platforms. It has performed worse than them by BEING worse than them for creators, and HW opinion flagging is what is worse.
Fund @freezepeach instead of HW, and allow the community to handle it's business censoring spam, scams, and plagiarism, as it has clearly proved it is capable of doing when it suppressed the bidbots. While there are still at least one bidbot in operation today, it is no longer a threat to the whole community, while HW has shown to be worse, and more insidious threat by crushing forthright speakers and causing them to abandon the platform. HW is so malignant that Fakebook and Twatter are better prospects, and that is a horrible fact of the misapplication of funds and code on Hive today.
you quote me talking about VOLUNTARY PEOPLE
NOT Hivewatchers
and then talk about the money Hivewatchers gets..
I am also much for funding @freezepeach
HW claims to be voluntary, just as you do, and just as Marky does.
I dunno who is in HW other than Guilty, and I am baffled why Guilty tolerates the opinion flagging HW executes. There must be a reason, but I am not going to speculate about his specific motivations, because I can't think of any potentially good ones and I don't want to falsely accuse anyone of bad actions.
There are scammers on social media platforms, and censorship is necessary to eliminate their profit motive. Censorship also works on spammers, and plagiarists. It also crushes ordinary people that post on Hive and don't do spam, scams, or plagiarism. DV's are censorship. That's why they work.
The censorship mechanism on Hive should not be applicable to opinions.
As for funding @freezepeach, @r0nd0n quit actively running it, and I know he is a busy and hardworking guy, so I can't fault him for it. He did the best he could for very little reward, and I admire him very much. However, @freezepeach isn't doing anything anymore, so I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to creators that are being censored for no good reason. You could do that too. If you don't know anyone that is being flagged without ceasing for their original content, I can give you a list. It evolves because most people just can't stay on it and quit posting to earn flags. The last creator that fell off that list is @baah, who reamed me a new one more often than he agreed with me, and I have no idea why he quit posting because I don't think he likes me very much and he doesn't keep me apprised of his reasons for doing things. But there are still folks posting against the constant pressure of censorship flags on every post and comment they make, and if just a few of us kicked them down 5% of our author rewards - which can't be flagged away - I think we could end the censorship ring that is suppressing free speech on Hive.
The censors do it for money, so they don't want to spend much censoring because that cuts into their profits. I am clearly not enough financial power to stop them, so more folks are necessary for the opposition to their opinion flagging to be successful. Regardless, I will continue to do it on principle, because that matters a whole lot more to me than a couple HBD.
Let me know if you want a list of folks that are being censored and should be supported with a cut of author rewards that can't be flagged away.
after you defending fascists that want to hunt me out of my country
and talking shit about me
I dont give a flying fuck
stuff it up ur ass
goodbye
I can understand that @baah did not like you
Yet I supported him because he posted factual information. That's the difference between you and him. While he ranted from time to time, he also produced valuable content.
Yeah, you lying piece of shit, that's why you upvoted me and wrote all those comments
to now lie and tell me the opposite
You fascist have achieved what you want: I will leave
you projecting piece of shit do not even talk with or against me
you talk about random stuff that has nothing to do with me
so shut the fuck up and leave me alone
you fucking idiots do not get that defending oneself if you do not leave others alone is the most fundamental right everyone has
stupid
I had 20 notifications this morning and 14 of them were of your rants pleading to be left alone. Maybe take your own advice?
Yeah, as if I had not 10 comments of your weird nonsense projections about Hivewatchers that HAS ZERO TO DO WITH ME
You brainless weird being
HERE HERE
I was going to say hard to say with a deterrence effect, but then seeing 12 HBD being sent to them hourly ( https://peakd.com/@hivewatchers/wallet) from the hive fundation , with very little hive power, and then dumping it into a savings on a dummy account with $77k HBD (https://peakd.com/@nuttin/wallet ) I think it is obviously no at this point.
I think they can be self sustaining without needing to be subsidized further and the training wheels can be taken off. Assuming they own the nuttin account, and the apr is 20%, that's still 42 hbd a day. If they continue to get 290hbd a day and the 42 from interest, then this time next year, it could be 110 hbd a day in interest.
In closing:
1.) Much better case for delegating HP or RC to projects than giving hbd. The foundation gets to keep its resources, and the dev can still use the HP/RC as needed.
2.) I think the 20% apr is ridiculous myself; that it is a ticking time bomb.
That's what I like Hive. Everything is transparent and no one can hide their bad behavior
Except when they do stuff off chain, which bad actors with above room temperature IQ will do.
This is why HW uses Discord to arrange the humiliation ritual people have to endure to get off the blacklist. Bad actors do what bad actors do, and HW does this off chain so you can't see it.
I fail to see how. That barely keeps pace with inflation, IMHO. In fact, I don't think it does. Better minds than mine, to wit Edicted, have thoroughly detailed why 20% interest on HBD savings are not any kind of threat to Hive, and you could have a look at his catalog to see his posts about it.
However, I agree with the statements you make about HW. Frankly, as long as they're opinion flagging I reckon they're Hive's enemy that is preventing the price of Hive from mooning. Without free speech, Hive is without value whatsoever. Whales flagging creators for their opinions reeks worse than skunkwater, and we should be supporting the victims of that censorship as I do with donations that cannot be flagged away so that the censors give up.
I, and I'm sure you also, want Hive to be a better platform for free speech than fakebook or twatter, that egregiously censor. Hive isn't a better platform for free speech or it would eclipse those platforms, and the only reason it isn't is opinion flags like those HW flies on content creators that aren't spammers, scammers, or plagiarists.
I already "voted" here ...
https://peakd.com/hive-174122/@roleerob/end-of-the-road-for-roleerob
... with my "feet" ... 👋
No, that is a total waste. Hivewatchers are the boil of the platform. Instead of punishing their users, take the money and distribute it to really good contributions and ideas that also advance the platform.
If someone is policing the community it should be done by Germans. We have a lot of instinct for order and justice. Most likely the whole thing would get hijacked by some Austrian guy again tho...
Ja, setzt euch doch bitte auch mal mit für Anti-Abuse ein... (finanziell und zeitlich)
Sehe nur die Selben Leute, welche sich seit immer (sogar noch zu Steem Zeiten) für Anti-Abuse einsetzen.
Würdet ihr euch auch mal einsetze, von eurer freien Zeit und mit euren HP - dann bräuchten wir gar keine Hivewatchers extra zahlen (wir Anti-Abuse Leute haben auch so unsere Probleme mit denen seit Jahren, können es aber auch nicht ändern - sind halt zu wenige)
Ihr wollt Dezentralität jedoch nichts dafür machen, "Gewinne" (Müll Karten & Tokens) jedoch nicht mal für ordentliche Posts Mühe machen - macht sogar noch bei Spam/ jahrelangen Aussaugen der Plattform mit, anstatt sich mal selbst anzustrengen, auf Almosen Gewinne hoffen?
Und wäre es dem Denno wirklich um Unterstützung (also er unterstützt andere) gegangen, würde er sich nicht sofort verabschieden, nachdem nach JAHREN mal ein paar überbewertete "Rewards" ausfallen ^^^^
Er braucht doch keine Rewards um mit seiner HP zu unterstützen ? Hat doch bereits selbst genug bekommen.
Wird Zeit dass sich die Rewards wirklich auf mehr kleinere Accounts (wenn sie sich nun anstrengen, ihre Chance sehen statt rumzuheulen) aufteilen.
Beim Thema Almosen solltest du ganz leise sein. Ich hab dir mal 10 HBD geschickt als ich einen Post von dir gelesen hab in dem du um Geld gebeten hast, obwohl ich dich damals so wie jetzt kaum kenne/kannte. Als nächsten Post durfte ich dann eine Beschwerde lesen, dass zu wenig Leute gespendet haben.
Ich merke schon, um 10 € für Essen zu beten und anzunehmen - transparenter Spendenaufruf auf einer dezentralen Plattform ist wohl sehr viel schlimmer als systematisch diese Plattform auszusaugen (getarnt als "Gewinnspiele" - ohne echten Gewinn - und wortwörtlich tausend-fachen immer gleichen Posts mit dafür vergleichsweise hohen Rewards)
der eine Post schon 1320 mal so rausgehauen und Hive gefarmt :D
Natürlich nicht die komplette HP dadurch erlangt..
Aber wohl scheinbar mittlerweile insgesamt immerhin knapp 17k $
und das gerechnet mit den aktuell miesen Kursen..
die 55k HP bei nem Dollar statt 30ct, wären schon 55k $
Und man findet nicht einen wirklich menschlich/ persönlichen Post von ihm - der ganze Account könnte ein Bot von wem-auch-immer sein :D
Aber ja, nervt mich alle noch halbes Jahrzehnt damit, wie ihr freiwillig mir mal Almosen habt zukommen lassen - heult über das System und die Steuern und unterstützt weiter Scam auf Hive.
Fliegt euch eh mittlerweile alles um die Ohren.
Schöne Grüße
ich fand dennos posts immer super. Eine ganze Weile der einzige Post wo ich einen Kommentar gelassen habe. Manche finden Travelblogs super spannend und ballern da >100$ payouts drauf. Denno macht hier eine Lotterie konsistent für 4 Jahre, jeden Tag. Dutzende von Hivians spielen sie, aber wenn dann mal der Balte das Ding auf 15$ böllert, dann ist es super schlimm oder was?
Und schweigen wir mal über @starthilfe der immer versucht hat die kleinen zu unterstützen, aber benutzt templates für den post = evil.
Hatte von dir nie ne hohe Meinung seit der Aktion damals, aber jetzt seh ich klar. Du bist Abschaum. Verpiss dich von meiner Blockchain und am besten auch aus meinem Land. Sowas wie dich braucht niemand.
Deine Projektion ist klasse :D
Spiegel dir das mal zurück.
Ich bin hier wegen Meinungsfreiheit und Möglichkeiten, nicht wegen solchen wie dir, und was du willst ist mir nicht weiter wichtig,
Alles Beste dir.
Why are you opinion flagging?
Are you trying to kill Hive?
No, but I am close before ignoring you, too
Just for asking me such a dumb question
Where have I flagged opinion?
Why do you front me everywhere?
I dont need that
First read into who you are defending rn (germans who want to abolish downvoting, the self-regulation-mechanism IN GENERAL, hunt people off the plattform and even out of countries)
Ciao customer, I had you better in my memory
That's your flag.
I had thought better of you too.
He want so hunt me off the platform and out of the country
so shut the fuck up, I am allowed to flag fascists like you guys, even defending each other and their fascist actions
while attacking those who defend themselves with flags
maybe we need the "chaos", cuz you dumb dumbs do not understand anarchy
=====
That is not opinion, but blatant fascism
So shut the fuck up
Please continue defending people who want to hunt others away (from the platform and even country) !
You are truly a great part of the community!
Fuck you !
Over and over again you state your desire to silence me, and you even fly opinion flags on my polite comments. Yet you continue to ignore your actions meriting your condemnation, and appear incapable of rational understanding whatsoever.
Because you are blatantly, obviously destroying your credibility and value to anyone with two neurons to rub together, I need to do nothing to defend myself from you, because you are destroying yourself.
Carry on.
Me wanting to be left alone from your hivewatchers projections onto me
IS WANTING TO CENSOR YOU ?
YOU JUST ACHIEVE TO HUNT ME OFF THE PLATFORM
AND ARE IN THE VICTIMHOOD ?
YOU DONT APPEAR TO EVEN KNOW WHAT CENSORSHIP IS
I WIELD NO POWER TO CENSOR YOU
fucking brainless idiot
ALSO
you are "quoting" something, that does not even appear in the quoted comment by me
you are purely projecting
a projecting fascist in victimhood
for clarification, in my:
is no:
bye idiot
yeah, he wants to hunt me off hive and even out of the country
AND YOU CALL IT "FLAGGING FOR OPINION"
you fascists want to tell me what I am allowed to flag
and you want me to stop all efforts for the community (we know since years in the anti-abuse community) and leave, so hunt me away, too
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdqp76
I go, you facists have avieched your censorship
keep whining about some words and turning everything around
even @themarkymark sees the farming-sheme by germans for WHAT IT IS
go defend it and watch this platform go bust
join the germans in abolishing downvoting (the decentralized self-regulation mechanism) in general, cuz that is what will follow after the germans achieve the wild-west-downvoting which they sooo fear, after abolishing hivewatcher (cuz their farming sheme got busted)
fuck you
The pic I posted shows that it is not I that am projecting. Take a moment and reflect on the statements I am quoting here revealing that they apply to you, as the pic proves.
You're clearly projecting all over me. You keep telling me what to do, telling me not to speak, and yet claiming I am who is doing those things. I have not. Quote me where I have. What you're doing is projecting the bad things you're doing on me, because then you can feel justified in doing bad things to me. The problem is that I'm not doing those things and you are, which you know subconsciously and this causes your anxiety and fear to increase, which is why you are lashing out in rage, because anger is the child of fear.
It is you that you fear, and your anger is being triggered by your actions. I am concerned you are either in crisis, or have somehow managed to conceal your psychosis for the years that I have followed you, which I don't think is remotely possible given the glaring obvious nature of your present derangement. I don't know your present personal circumstances, but clearly there seems to be some present thing that has triggered you and that is causing you to act in a completely incompetent and pathological way. Please seek some company IRL that you trust and get off the blockchain, where you are leaving proof of your incapacity at present that will not go away.
I am kinda slow, but even I am now aware that something is happening to you that isn't normal for you. Please take some time and enjoy the good personal company of someone you trust, at least so that your time is better spent than spewing useless insults where they don't belong, in the good company of someone you like instead.
stuff it up ur ass, gaslighting manipulating psycho
go over to your german blind followers and defend them openly stating to want to hunt people out of the country
I will continue downvoting that but stop my effort for the community and anti-abuse as you have asked
good luck
wie wäre es, alle selbstvotes, alle curation trails und alles was zum betrug nutzbar ist ab zu schaffen? dann bleibt schon mal nur noch spam und doppelaccounts! aber wer entscheidet was spam ist? ein gewinnspiel was täglich läuft, ist kein spam. wenn es anderen usern spaß macht daran teil zu nehmen und sie freiwillig voten, ist es doch genau das, was hier gefördert werden sollte . wenn der user die votes dazu nutzt, anderen zu helfen, was man ja ganz einfach nachvollziehen kann, so nutzt er weder etwas zum eigenen vorteil, noch betrügt. punkt! und noch etwas. wer beleidigt, anstatt sachlich zu diskutieren, ist immer im unrecht ;-) hier hat sich nämlich langsam eine moralpolizei entwickelt, die entgegen der community handelt, denn wenn ein paar wenige entscheiden, was richtig und falsch ist, dann sind wir beim kommunismus angelangt.
erkläre mir, wo der unterschied bei mir liegt. ob ich auf youtube, oder twitch, oder dlive, oder vimm meinen stream veröffentliche und beim dem "beitrag" user freiwillig voten können. warum wird mir dann eigennutz vorgeworden, obwohl ich noch nie einen cent aus hive abgehoben habe und zumindest per fanbase täglich mehrere votes an andere verteile... wieso kann einer darüber entscheiden, dass das unrecht ist und alles auf 0 voten? wieso muss ich auf seinen willen hin bei anderen kommentieren, obwohl ich das überhaupt nicht möchte, da ich lieber mit usern im stream rede! mit welchem recht? und seine letzten worte waren, ihm gefällt mein content nicht... mir gefällt seiner auch nicht, deswegen vote ich aber niht auf 0 unabhängig davon, dass ich das aufgrund meines accounts ja auch nicht kann. das ist nichts anderes als meinungsdiktatur und machtausspielung.
Hive ist kein Sozialismus-Circlejerk-Projekt
Ansonsten bezüglich dem Rest: Ja! Macht doch!
Schaff eine dezentralere Anti-Abuse Projekt Alternative zu HIveWatchers !
Nutzt eure HP auch zum Bekämpfen von Anti-Abuse !
MACHT
Aber ihr habt euch über Jahre 0, 0 0 0 0 (ausgesprochen: null Komma null null null null)
Für diese Themen eingesetzt - nun wollen viele HW und sogar Downvotes ansich abschaffen, nur um selbst weiter Farmen, die Plattform Abusen zu können.
Egoistischer geht es ja nicht mehr..
Genau deswegen sind die Masse der schlauen Diskutierer zu der Taktik übergegangen - sich einfach wegen jeglicher Kleinigkeit sofort beleidigt zu fühlen und im Anschluss sich somit das Recht erworben zu haben den anderen einfach komplett aus dem Diskurs auszuschließen und direkt mundtot zu machen! wie die echten wissenschaftlichen Faschisten mit ihrem Deutungsmonopol es eben gewohnt sind ;)
@stayoutoftherz
WEIL ER DIE HP HAT?
SO WIE DU VOTEN KANNST WAS DU WILLST, KANN ER DAS AUCH
NUR ER HAT HALT MEHR HP GEKAUFT, ERWORBEN, ERKÄMPFT, VERDIENT, WHATEVER UND DESWEGEN ZÄHLT ES AUCH MEHR ALS EIN 10 HP VOTE
ist doch logisch
Übrigens, genau diesen Downvote-Wilden-Westen kriegen wir wieder, sobald ihr erstmal Hivewatchers abgeschafft habt.
Ich bin auch schon seit JAHREN für ein Abschaffen von Hivewatchers.
Das beantwortet leider gar nichts und du wiederholst dich! ich bin nicht dagegen, downvotes perse ab zu schaffen. aber meiner meinung nach willkürliche downvotes eines einzelnen als bestrafung eines anderen, nur weil ihm das nicht gefällt ;-) nach deiner logik muss ich nur geld einzahlen und habe dann das recht, alles und jeden der mir persönlich nicht passt, auf 0 zu voten. ich habe versucht mit ihm zu reden. wollte konkrete dinge vom ihm erfahren, wie ich den downvotes entgehe. es kam nichts ausser sinnlose sätzt nach dem motto, das müsste ich selbst heraus finden. und zuletzt eben, dass er das nur macht, weil ihm mein content nicht gefällt. ich habe also keinerlei handhabe dagegen.
somit verbrennt er die votes der user, macht meine beiträge weniger sichtbar für andere und auch weniger attraktiv für andere darauf zu voten, wenn sie keinerlei nutzen davon haben. echt super system ;-)
Wenn es um deinen speziellen Fall geht, bräuchte ich schon mehr Infos bezüglich des Kontexts
Hält das weiterhin an oder war das nur mal kurzzeitig und ist schon wieder länger her?
Ah, sehe gerade..
Ich hör mich mal um
Schickst du mir bitte Links dazu, als das Nuke (also auf 0) Downvoting begonnen hat?
Und zu eurer Konversation mit seinen Antworten ?
Schau mal was man machen kann
https://hive.blog/hive-169926/@galenkp/re-rcshad0w-rny2io
https://hive.blog/hive-196037/@rcshad0w/p35omcpvthe#@rcshad0w/rpq88o
https://hive.blog/hive-169926/@galenkp/re-rcshad0w-rnyiho
https://hive.blog/hive-169926/@rcshad0w/3457328eae5902eb5bc73ec1d2bf4937-vimmtv#@rcshad0w/rnyin8
ich will dir die vorgeschichte dazu sagen, da ich nicht unschuldig daran bin und mich auch nicht heraus reden muss.
ich habe damals mehrere post am tag gemacht, mich selbst geupvotet, auch per curation trail. einfach weil mir das egal war. ich habe sowieso nie vor gehabt, hiermit irgend ein einkommen zu erzielen, da ich genug geld mit meiner arbeit verdiene.
da war alles was er gemacht hat auch berechtigt. ob das heute noch so ist kannst du für dich selbst entscheiden, da du ja einsehen kannst, was ich mit meinem account mache. das ganze geht nun ca 1,5 jahre.
noch was zum thema. für mich ist das hivewatchers system absolut undurchsichtig. bis vor kurzem wusste ich nciht mal, das es die gibt. ich weiß nicht wer da mitglied ist. nach welchen konkreten kriterien gewählt wird. wo man sich hinwenden kann, wenn man der meinung ist, dasss es unberechtig ist und wo man konkrete hilfe bekommt, um von denen in ruhe gelassen zu werden. also regelkonform zu posten
Danke.
Ich schaue mal was ich machen kann, habe auch bereits auf Discord die entsprechenden Leute angeschrieben / markiert/ getaggt..
Habe aber das Gefühl ich werde keine Antwort bekommen, ignoriert werden, wohl weil die keine Lust haben sich zu rechtfertigen und für die das Thema abgeschlossen ist..
Möchte natürlich auch nicht nerven (so wie ich wohl auch genervt wäre, wenn Leute auf mich zu kommen und nerven warum ich wen downvote) aber mal sehen..
Versuche auf jeden Fall mal was ich kann..
Kann dir aber nichts versprechen.
Würde dir dann wohl eher empfehlen es mit einem neuen Account zu versuchen.... und diesmal dann nicht einfach ignorierend täglich blind den Inhalt posten.. Vielleicht den Inhalt (Videos) noch etwas mehr einbinden..
Hilfe hättest du von unseren alternativen Anti-Abuse Projekten wie @freezepeach bekommen oder von der jeweiligen Community..
Leider sind die alternativen Anti-Abuse Projekte gescheitert (weil fehlende Teilnahme, Unterstützung und sogar destruktive Reaktionen von den bekannten dummen Communitymigliedern)
und leider ist deine "native" Community auch die faschistische D-A-CH Community, welche sowieso alles ausschließt was ihr nicht passt. (Wie die 3 Affen mit Hände auf Augen, Ohren, Mund)
er votet sogar meine beiträge auf 0
https://hive.blog/hive-121566/@starthilfe/starthilfe-less-than-hivewatcher-keine#@dotwin1981/re-themyscira-2024516t225434417z
https://hive.blog/@rcshad0w/comments
So you support opinion flagging and censorship of the poor?
See, I can disagree with you without censoring you. I think that's a vile opinion, but you have a right to speak it, and my opposition to it can be expressed without censoring your opinion. In fact, I think expressing my opposition to your opinion is vastly more powerful than censoring you, because expressing my views contrary to yours can enable others to agree with me, which will benefit everyone that considers both our views.
Censorship is weakness. Your flags are weakness.
Shut up
Everyone can do with their HP how they like - that is a fact
They can circlejerk and others can downvote them for that.
Just because they have the HP, THEY ARE FREE TO DO WITH THEIR HP
SO AS THE GERMANS ONLY CIRCLEJERK
So are you defending circlejerks and abusers?
And try to VERBIETEN bigger accounts to flag that?
So you support censorship of big investors?
DO YOU WANT TO KILL HIVE ?
(I am only asking these dumb questions, cuz you asked me them - it is part of the reflection)
Bye
That's just chaos. The law of the jungle, and has no potential to create a functional society - which I reckon the present state of Hive demonstrates well. That's what's been killing Hive instead of enabling it to outcompete highly censored and propaganda spewing Big Social Media. That's the problem. If the code enables it, it's all ethical and productive, right? Except the code also permits scams and sniffers to snag exposed keys, so by your standards those things should be just fine too.
There need to be rules that restrict individual freedom in society in order for society to be anything other than a cannibal holocaust. Hive needs to rationally secure free speech or remain redolent of the stench of censorship it reeks of across the cryptosphere now. Even Reddit has more users. Opinion flags that have driven ~1M users off the platform - which is more than 100x the users presently on board - glaringly reveal an almost suicidal level of self-harm to the platform from censorship. It's hard to conceive of worse management performance of a social media platform, particularly one that introduced getting paid by curators to blog just as social media was becoming the largest financial sector in global markets.
Frankly, I have to suspend disbelief to think it isn't deliberate suppression.
You are just a projecting piece of shit asshole
Good luck !
SHOW ME
You talking shit about me: your PROJECTION
is a weakness
I have only flagged if people insulted me or even have directly threatened me with violence and want to chase me out of Hive and the country (Germany)
So
PLEASE
SHUT THE FUCK UP
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@thatgermandude/re-woelfchen-sdhjhq
Keep lying about me and defending those who even threaten with violence and you get your flags from me!
Bye
Gasp! Clearly, muting isn't enough. Perhaps nuclear weapons should be considered. You also might have a look at your statements to me above and compare it to what you're claiming is intolerable speech you have to censor.
You're off your hook, man. Get a grip.
I dont give a fuck about fascists or people who support fascists (I have my problem with the german community since YEARS, which you have no clue about)
So shut the fuck up
or I'll stop doing anything for this asshole platform
(am even still currently helping community member of that fascist community
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@woelfchen/re-rcshad0w-sdqgty
But you can get more on my nerves like the fascists asshole supporter you are, and I will stop)
Censorship.
Yay!
Given the choice between your vilification and nothing, I would obviously prefer nothing from you at all. Please mute me so your incessant triggering no longer disturbs my peace and sanctity, or that of Hive, and we can get on with the business of creating felicitous society without the impediment of your counterproductive screeching, nonsensical rants, and baseless ad hominems.
You are as dumb as the germans, who do not even know WHAT CENSORSHIP EVEN IS.
You talk about baseless ad hominems and support fascists, who exclude one from the "scientific" discourse, silence you, defame you, even go so far as to want to chase you off the platform and out of your own country
You call me evil, cuz I defend myself
Just shut up with your complete nonsense and leave me alone, asshole
Continue whining about my use of free speech to defend myself, about my use of MY HP to counter their circle-jerking, self-voting, farming of bot-account rewards for literally the SAME POST FOR YEARS abusing the reward pool, and also just their fascistic behaviour
Go on with your projection, you are not better than the dumb germans, thinking I was some Hivewatcher insider
WHILE YOU KNOW I AM AGAINST HIVEWATCHER SINCE ITS INCEPTION
you back-stabbing piece of asshole fascists scum
If you think your vile mischaracterizations of me or anyone else, replete with vulgar ad hominems and bizarre claims of oppression (I have never, ever downvoted you), are defending you, you are quite mistaken.
Nothing I say can attack you. What I say is useful to judge me by.
It is your words, your libel, your lies, vulgarity, and utter incomprehension that you are judged by. You are your worst enemy. I am actually doing my very best to help you understand this, so that you can act to refrain from destroying your credibility and empathy from anyone that is bored enough to read our exchanges. I am explaining how your speech is revealing who you are, so that you can say things that merit respect.
I am actually quite shocked. I really am wondering if you are having a crisis, some kind of psychotic break that may be endangering you or those around you. I have never imagined such behaviour coming from you, and I have followed you for years. It is extremely bizarre, and I hope you have a good social network and can get the help you need.
LOL
but you claim I have censored you
it is pointless, you support the fascists wanting to push me out (of platform AND COUNTRY)
you liar have now achieved that I stop all efforts regarding community & anti-abuse
do it alone
with your fascist friends and psychosis, hivewatcher, whatever projections
i am leaving, you and the fascists have won
Goodbye
AS IF I HAD THE POWER TO CENSOR YOU
WHERE ?
YOU ARE JUST A PIECE OF SHIT WITH PROJECTIONS
LOL
SO YOU SUPPORT ABUSING THE PLATFORM; FARMING REWARDS; CALL FASCISTS "THE POOR"; STAB INTO THE BACK OF VOLUNTARY OLD ANTI-ABUSE COMMUNITY MEMBERS?
I already know the answer
Yes, why don't you join us in the effort for anti-abuse... (financially and in terms of time)
I only see the same people who have always (even in Steem times) contributed to anti-abuse.
If you would also use your free time and your HP - then we wouldn't have to pay extra for hivewatchers (we anti-abuse people have also had our problems with them for years, but we can't change it either - there are just too few of us -> so a need for hivewatchers).
You don't want to do anything for decentralisation, but you don't even want to make an effort for proper posts - you even participate in spam/years of sucking the platform dry instead of making an effort yourselves, hoping for little crap "wins"?
And if Denno was really interested in support (i.e. he supports others), he wouldn't immediately say goodbye after a few overvalued "rewards" are cancelled after YEARS ^^^^
He doesn't need rewards to support others with his HP? He's already got enough himself.
It's about time that the rewards are really distributed to more smaller accounts (if they make an effort and see their chance instead of whining now).
well you critized something else so let me respond to that.
I dont mind organisation. I think well organising something and giving people a payment or reward for their effort is not a bad thing. Organsiation is not in conflict with decentralisation and not even anarchism itself - at least not on a principle level.
Im also not against the Wild West solution, where everybody flags and even common folks downvote stuff they think is overrated/overpayed. I would make a morning routine out of downvoting 90% of the trending page and I would have a jolly time doing so. Even though I actually think this would be the best solution Im surely not the one who will try to make it trend.
organized farming of the hive reward pool ?
Of course, he didn't get the full HP from it.
But apparently a total of just under $17k in the meantime
and that calculated with the current lousy exchange rates...
the 55k HP with a dollar price instead of 30ct would already be 55k $
organized farming by posting the same post now the 1320th time (he even numbered it :D) getting a few hive for giving out 1 hive (HSBI) or win games where one wins worthless tokens and cards?
And you can't find one really human/personal post from him - the whole account could be a bot from whoever :D
best "marketing" for outside viewer - a big circlejerk
and blind people supporting scammers who exploit them, their own supporters/ fans/ friends
by giving them crumbles for farming rewards
good luck
"getting a few hive for giving out 1 hive (HSBI)"
setzen sechs!
Schau nochmal nach und ich hoffe, dass du dich dann zumindest ein klein wenig bei @kryptodenno entschuldigst.
Über etwas herziehen, sich das aber noch nicht mal genau angucken.
Und um sicherzugehen, dass du richtig nachschaust, bitte hier einmal auflisten, was es alles gibt!
Erinnert mich ein klein wenig an das hier (von wegen nicht lesen):
https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/datenschutz-website-belohnt-leser-mit-gratis-wein-a-4c8e4e63-dc86-480b-bd21-5f96c118210a
Erklär mir doch mal, wozu Hivewatcher Stündlich 12 HBD bekommt? Also das ist mal die Community schröpfen!
Wieso soll ich mir euren Müll genauer anschauen - ihr seid bei mir alle unten durch.
Euch fliegt eh alles um die Ohren.
Hivewatchers ist auch schon länger ein Problem - SEIT JAHREN..
Ihr seid halt auch einfach mal wieder mega spät dran. Und einfach allen Anti-Abuse abzuschaffen ohne euch für neuen (besseren, dezentralen - kann ja jeder Flaggen) einzusetzen - wird diese Plattform töten.
Doch von sowas habt ihr keinen Plan und interessiert euch auch nicht. Ihr wollt bloß eure paar Farming Rewards, und die Scammer noch viel mehr...
Ich bin auch kein Teil von Hivewatchers. Ich wurde das halbe Jahrzehnt nie für meinen Einsatz bezüglich Anti-Abuse (auch in der deutschen DACH Community) belohnt - im Gegenteil, nur geächtet, von euch unfair behandelt gefühlten, egoistischen Dämonen.
Viel Glück beim Lernen
Weil du darüber herziehen, wenn du das machst, dann beschäftige dich damit.
Ich dachte Hive ist eine Plattform für so ziemlich alles und die Community entscheidet, was ein Upvote und was ein Downvote wert ist. Aber dem ist nicht so, es sind nur ein paar wenige.
Wie man an der Umfrage sehen kann, 100% dagegen.
Proposal hat lediglich etwas über 100 Votes, leider von paar Mächtige.
Im Gegensatz dazu haben andere Proposals mehrere hundert oder gar tausende Votes. Und leider bekommen aber diese Teils dennoch nichts.
290 am Tag, wofür? Selbst 29 am Tag wären mehr als Ausreichend!
Habs nicht überprüft, aber wenn lediglich 20$ Downvotes am Tag erfolgen, dann sind das 270 $ die Sinnlos raus geworfen werden und für gabz anderes genutzt werden sollten.
Beschäftige du dich doch mal damit.
Wir wollen Hivewatchers seit JAHREN dezentralisieren.
Aber ihr interessiert euch nicht für Anti-Abuse
Ihr wollt die Plattform selbst für euch ausnutzen.
Viel Glück mit eurer Hirnlosigkeit.
Beschäftige dich mal wirklich selbst mit dem dezentralen Selbstregulierungsmechanismus - dann würdest du niemals Downvotes grundsätzlich abschaffen wollen.
Hast jetzt erstmal paar Wochen was zu tun.
Viel Glück - bin jetzt wirklich raus, das ist hier einfach komplett sinnlos.
Ihr seid eh nur in eurer Projektion und denkt wohl auch noch ich wäre HW
LOL
Lern mal Lesen du Affe
Lern du mal lesen!
Was steht unter dem was du markiert hast?
Und dann guck dir die Posts mal an die davor waren.
Aber Hauptsache beleidigen
And? If you don't like the game, don't play.
I don't like the game, so I don't play. Problem solved. Why do you feel like you should be able to tell others what content to enjoy?
I can downvote what I want
And I havent even downvoted, while I have been downvoted by them for TALKING
Even if I start downvoting now, I am free to do so
So get your facts right
fucking fascists, wanting to abolish the self-regulation mechanism of hive, down-votes in general
go to fucking blurt you pieces of brainless shit
tell that the germans who only joined 3 days ago to abolish HW, just cuz their farming sheme got busted
They play the game and now WHINE cuz others busted their farming game.
So do you want to be able to tell other big HP Stakes what farming sheme abuse they are allowed to downvote and what not?
These germans are even so dumb:
I am also for abolishing HW, it is just not a new topic (since few days) for me
These dumb germans do not know, that we will get wild-west-downvoting again as soon as HW is being abolished
wild-west-downvoting is what the germans fear the most
Let's go !
But shut the fuck up about me, or join the dumb germans, you could match pretty good
You refer to sock puppets. They aren't n00bs. The HW crew and censorship ring that supports them are clearly massively funded, and those with the most substantial stake are who has the thousands and thousands of socks.
Sadly, I don't even speak German.
Ich lese auch kein Deutsch
Abolish hiveWatchers
LOL
Ordnung is not the basis for freedom, but rather Austrian jackboot fetishists. There does need to be order, but rather the order of the Goths than Romans. Freedom of speech has created the longest enduring societies the world has ever seen, starting millennia ago with the expansion of the Yamnaya that burst out of the steppes by inventing dairy and the economic advantage that provided.
Such invention is only facilitated by free speech, and demonstrates that it is free speech that is far more valuable than mere money.
Thanks!
Ordnung muss sein! :)
It is that supposed principles are being constantly contradicted, which are first proclaimed loudly and proudly and then broken with a downvote for not being able to stomach insults or differentiating opinions. On whim.
When I opened my Steemit account it was advertised with "you get paid to blog" and with "free speech", their unique selling points.
However, it cannot credibly advertise itself and later Hive as such, as free speech is prevented here just as it is elsewhere. Not through downvotes per se, but by promoting mainstream content. What you see on trending is what counts and is consumed mostly.
Since no clear set of rules is communicated centrally, there are no clear rules. For example, you have to get to know HW before you know what function it fulfils.
For me, Hive is an example of what happens when you create a space where people who have nothing to do with each other try their hand at politics. Since there are no familial, local or business relationships between them, the only currency is the attention currency. If you're not conjuring up the end of the world (extreme on one side) or drawing a utopia (extreme on the other), you remain a barely read user. Which I do not mind personally (IF I have a steady readership of a handful of people) but that's how online-activity seems to be understood.
Everything else is mediocre entertainment as a matter of fact.
People say that every user has to be a plagiarism/spam police. But the fact is that most people don't want to do that, which is understandable when you put into perspective how much time it takes to do just that.
The ludicrous thing about the situation is that if someone posts spam in large quantities, the payouts first have to be visible in order to be noticed, for example trending. But if they now appear on the trending page, it means that they already have high payouts. I would say that spam usually doesn't trend, but then spam is hard to find. So it's just a coincidence if you come across a spammer account.
I wouldn't downvote a spammer if I come across one, since it cannot be done by just one glimpse and then push a button. So you need a police. Who then reports violation to a mature committee, who then contacts the suspect, who then have a talk, who then clear the case. All of it must be transparent and not behind the scenes, as you rightly pointed out. The payment for the police and the committee must be worth the time and work invested. The documentation of the executives must be well written and thoroughly done by the best standards. The police ought not be the judges, only the ones who refer supposedly spammers and plagiarists to the committee.
Since "spam" isn't crystal clear either, some whales downvote posts that simply have a picture plus a little text as spam. Opinions can be divided here.
The users then complain because countless of them actually have no awareness at all that what they publish maybe regarded as totally unimportant rubbish. Only when you get to know a user do you begin to understand what their "one picture plus two lines" could mean. For example with antisocialist.
But of course, there ARE just rubbish postings who could as well be AI-supported content. One never knows before one does not engage on a one-on-one basis. So I would say people are not payed for their content but for being known (becoming acquainted to each other) through engagement over a longer course of time. It's relational.
If someone is not interested at all in building a relation towards his audience, it can mean (but not for sure) that he gives a damn. But you never know. Sometimes people want to share what they find important in an open space. And, as you say, value free speech more than payout. But it can't be helped, since the payout is in the first place what generates attention. So, free speech is linked to high payouts.
I have often experienced the politicians on this platform (witnesses) saying that they really don't want to debate with every single user, which is "exactly why downvotes and upvotes are distributed". But that's still what they should and are expected to do, as they are perceived as politicians and set themselves up as such.
But if you are in such a mood that you don't really want to have anything to do with the tedious work of a politician because it is supposedly enough to press buttons, you end up with a user base that presses buttons. The whole design is geared towards button-pushing and because of this, witnesses refuse to do anything other than push buttons. They justify it by saying that it saves time and the statement itself is enough for people to find buttons pressed on their post, representing either a thumbs up or a thumbs down. The whole nature of the algorithm is geared towards this.
"Saving time" and automating the very processes in which people actually can come to an understanding towards each other, is an illusion. Time cannot be saved, since conflict cannot be avoided. Avoiding conflict means to push buttons instead of debating.
It's an illusion to think that pushing buttons represent engagement since it doesn't. So, they can be believed in saying that they don't want to debate with every single user. But then, they cannot place a downvote either, if they refuse to talk to that specific user who received their downvote. That is a contradiction. They are expected to invest personal time and arguments. If they don't like it, they cannot be a witness, and should remove themselves from the witness list.
One person cannot talk to many people at the same time, that's true. Each individual can only have a conversation with a handful of people. If you violate this insight, you succumb to the misconception that this truth can be replaced by pressing buttons. It can't.
My goodness you are lucid! I am so glad I get the benefit of your considerations.
Aside from some expectations of witnesses I don't think are mete, I vehemently agree with most every word you have written here, and didn't know I did until you said it.
Hey! You do read my posts! LOL
Gah. This truth sticks in my craw. Nonetheless, it is true, so I'm choking it down. As much as I don't want a 'police', sorting plagiarism and tracking spam takes resources that require dedication mere content consumers aren't providing, and can't. What that means is that HW and Marky are understaffed (and HW is overpaid because of it), and there needs to be - as others have mentioned as well - a formal statement of what is and isn't spam, plagiarism, AI generated content, and so forth, and teams of competent people to serve in the various roles necessary to properly execute policing functions.
I don't know what the procedures have been heretofore, but when scams arise, actual police may legally be required to be informed.
You have substantially changed my perspective on this matter, and I cannot thank you enough for doing so. I hate being wrong, and now that I agree with you I am right again! But, can we have juries of our peers instead of professional committees or judges? I agree we need competent investigation and detection, but there will be matters of judgment, and it seems to me that juries are a strongly justified mechanism for rendering judgment, guilt or innocence, upon presentation of professional investigation and defense by the accused.
Also, once you have institutions, you get corruption. The professional police and investigation committees are going to be infiltrated by scammers seeking to influence investigations, so they can get away with scams. Juries are much more resistant to institutional corruption that judges and police IME.
Thanks!
HaHa! LoL :D - you know that I do.
However you recruit them, this is the weakest point in the matter.
To have non corruptible people, you'd actually would have to refer to the already existing organs outside of hive. But since hive is a globally working sphere, you'd have the executive and judiciary/jury positions according to the location of the involved. But if you have a party from England and one from Venezuela, you have a problem.
In order to meet conflict in a proper way, you need all three: the police to report suspects, a mediator group (arbitrator), and, if mediating does not work, a judge and a jury (while I do not see a jury needed in all cases). You cannot have those people from within the Hive network, since they would be in conflict with their interest. Since they are all stakeholders (getting paid for content creation).
To have outside-people getting involved, you'd actually would need real mediators and real police and real judges since you cannot be any of it, if that is not your education and profession - so people who ARE those pros and do hive as a hobby, for example. Everyone could be a jury member but then you'd have to sit by in a led process, which again, must be led by a professional. And accept HBD for compensation.
Having said all this, I see that almost nobody here is professionally educated in those fields. I am myself a consultant and have a bit experience in mediating, but probably wouldn't want to do it here professionally, since HBD/HP as compensation is not attractive enough.
Maybe, I would do a mediation process once a year for the fun and experience of it. But I would need, before anything, an official mandate from the conflicting parties - and they would have to accept that I probably would have a conflict of interest myself - LoL. There is a certain and strict protocol for mediating a conflict (for very good reasons). If you are interested, I dig in the basement of my steemit blogsite to pull one article out.
I don't see any conflict of interest. Outside Hive every jury member uses fiat. Juries on Hive using it's tokens aren't any more of a conflict of interest.
Seems to me that would cause them to more diligently judge carefully their peers, zealous to both defend the innocent (to make sure they're not judged unfairly themselves if they are falsely accused) as well as get scammers and malicious parties cured or censored. That's the point of juries of peers: folks that have a vested interest in justice, not kangaroo courts or pats on the backside for hazards to the community.
No one would better be able to investigate scams and etc. than Hive members that are competent to use the features of the front ends and platform, and only in cases of actual crimes, like theft and fraud, would outside authorities be necessary to bring in. Frankly, like all insular communities, I'd prefer to handle our business in house.
By the time we get to mediation, we should have a good understanding of the facts of the matter, which a proper adjudication metric should provide appropriate guidelines to a jury to implement.
So you're saying that jury members would have no conflict whatsoever as stakeholders in a cryptocurrency with the subject matter of what would be negotiated?
I am building up a case in my mind, to follow my thoughts on this...
Let's say you were prosecuting a case in some country where some stranger to the jury was accused of spamming. The company making the accusation would be some local social media platform in Germany, for example a forum for computer games. None of the jury members would have a monetary stake in this company because the company offers no possibility of monetary participation. None of them know the senior operators of this company and have never come into contact, either directly or indirectly.
What would be negotiated would be the accusation of inadmissible spamming on the sites accessible to the public.
What is the likelihood that the individuals on the jury would be guided by a financial interest, because it is said that the operation of the platform suffers financial and reputational damage as a result of spamming? The probability would not be given. The defendant would not have this specific financial motivation either.
The jury would be asked by the accuser to take the interest of the company into account, of course. The defendend would argue that the spamming accusation is not correct, because .... and so on and so forth.
If you now take Hive as that social media platform, where every opened account requires at least some stake, and where participation and engagement with other users is highly dependent on building up stake in order to become more visible, and in order to make ones own votes more attractive, and where the financial stability of the currency is linked to its success, and where participants use downvotes in order to counteract what they think is "damaging" the platform, but nowhere it is defined and can be looked up as a central rule what exactly is to be understood by "damage", that those jury members can come in no conflict with what they think about the matter of spam, the matter of the reward pool, the matter of downvotes themselves?
I would define that as a probability to come into conflict between my interest as a hive user and the interest of another hive user, would you not?
Personally, I don't think the point of using jurors is for them to be zealous. Rather, I think that because jurors are randomly selected (as I interpret your US law), they are considered a fair representation of the average citizen because they are allowed to have as little to do with the case presented to them as possible.
As I understand it, it would promote a conflict if jury members were, for example, shareholders in the company that a person accused of harming the company. So if by chance a person was selected who worked in the company or held shares in it, they would be excluded from the trial, I think.
Where I live, in the Pacific Northwest, there are company towns, where the entire population of a town works for one company, usually logging companies. They don't have any option to exclude jurors for working for the company the accused also works for (if they're a local). I believe that the reason the jury system works so well is that jurors are indeed zealous to ensure the rights of the accused are respected by the legal process, that the prosecution does effectively prove beyond a shadow of a doubt their guilt, or to conserve the rights of the juror by voting not guilty if the prosecution does not meet that bar. People are indeed zealous of the felicity of their village or town, because their family depends on it, and don't want criminals to prey on themselves, or their friends, family, neighbors because that threatens themselves and their family. Juries are motivated to judge truly and justly because of these factors.
You've painted a very specific picture here. You come from the perspective that having a vested interest is THE requirement for judging over a case. Now, this interest is here the locality and familiarity as well as the dependency on a company which feeds the town.
I agree that what I would call determination (not zeal) to judge fairly may take place. IF the logging company IS seen as a valuable enterprise for the whole area. But the question would be, what point of accusation towards a single townsperson could such a company make, arguing that its stability or very existence was in jeopardy?
To be in jeopardy as a company through a damaging act by an individual, I can only imagine that it would be a case of a powerful individual (journalist, for example) who tries to damage the logging companies reputation. Then this journalist must have a lot of power (which usually is not the case if you are acting individually, but collectively). Since badmouthing a company by individuals in private usually does not harm the company in total.
I actually didn't say that it was necessary to juries. What I did say, or meant to say, was that interest improved the ability of juries to judge because it caused their attention to be sharp and focused, and their interest aligns with actual justice.
Anyway, I don't think juries are magical. They certainly reflect their societies, which includes the bad with the good.
Alright. Thanks for clarifying.
True.
Have you ever been a member of a jury yourself? Or do you know someone who was?
We don't have that in Germany. What we have, is this:
Unfortunately, the wiki-entry does not translate into English. If you are interested, you must translate it yourself. I wasn't knowing about the "Schöffen" myself. I only knew the word and vaguely what it could mean. I was surprised when I read that you can act as a lay judge in court and that your vote actually counts just as much as that of a professional judge.
Well, juries in the US can actually rule that the law is the problem, not actions of the defendant. It's called Jury Nullification, and judges hate, hate, hate it. They often caution juries, dismiss attorneys, and start trials over if jury nullification is mentioned. They've even muzzled defendants so they can't speak out of order at trial. American juries are yet one of the most powerful vestiges of actual democracy left in the country, since voting at the national level is merely a ritual and ballot box stuffing or burning the ballots of the challenging candidate tend to decide elections where more than a few million dollars are spent on the contest. Small local elections are both more effective in controlling local polities, and more likely to be decided by the actual voters, because there's less money involved, and teams of ballot farmers cost too much.
Thus, when the wrong candidate gets in office and passes bad laws, juries have authority to nullify such laws during trials of people accused of breaking them, as well as declare the defendant guilty or not guilty. I think very highly of juries, but have been disappointed with jurors, because so many of them aren't very competent to understand technical issues, are bamboozled by their indoctrinations and propaganda, or aren't very attentive or courageous when human rights are violated by laws and courts.
I have been on juries, which is where I formed my opinion.
That is very interesting. I didn't know about Nullification. That's a great tool to counteract stupid laws. I would be interested in statistics, how often it happened that Nullification was successful. Is this ever in the media?
Yeah, I bet that this is not very well received from those who are in full line with none sensical regulations.
People here in my country who do not abide by the law, sometimes hope that someone accuses them and then a trial in court takes place. That is, of course, a high risk that your case will be judged against you.
It tells a lot about the state of affairs if those very tools to put things in balance are neither known nor often enough used.
I was attending a trial not so long ago and the result was disappointing since the judge decided against the woman accused. But what was worth it for me to watch it was that I saw how the judge actually struggled with the case and said some things which impressed me. It was obvious to me that he actually would have liked to decide in favour of the defendant, but couldn't find the courage to do so.
But when the prosecutors responded to his questions to them in such a way that they thought the defendant was guilty from the outset and it became obvious that they did, he became quite annoyed and told them: "If that's the case, that you want to ignore what you've heard here, we could save ourselves any trial!" He did indeed say a few other intelligent things, but on the whole it was not enough to secure an acquittal. He tried hard to work the prosecutors so that they could have done the difficult task of dropping the charges (which would obviously have been the best solution for him), but finally, after four tough sessions, he did what he did.
However, it was important for me to witness this live and to realise that things are often not as black and white as we see them from a distance.
Almost never, first because the courts suppress to the degree possible that power juries have, and because the media are utterly craven traitors that make every effort to impose the worst despotism humanity has ever suffered, and therefore suppress useful information and means people can employ to repair and reclaim their government.
Having said all this and having talked to themarkymark in this comment thread (and others before him), I think that the witnesses don't hold themselves accountable for giving rules, since they seem to think that the so called white paper says it all.
Since the analogy of a crab bucket is used, they are more or less saying, that the so called community (each and every single individual crab) rules. That can be translated to "every one rules". But if everyone rules, then no one rules. A place cannot be ruled by everyone.
If that is believed, rules are not there. What IS there is personal individual whim, taste, opportunism, hostility, sympathy, pity.
Since the witnesses say that they cannot give any clear rules because of "decentralization" they will not give out any clear rule to which they (as well as every one else) can be held accountable. Because accountability would be something all actors could refer to. But when you have no reference and no authority, arguing and negotiating becomes futile. Every virtue signaling becomes futile.
Indeed, this is the case.
In the broader context the illusion exists as a phenomena, that there is no authority but one's own, that there is no objectivity but only subjectivity, the individual is condemned to look only at himself as a reference and to neglect perspectives (and facts) from a point of view other than his own, the resultant error turns the many individuals into a righteous mob that believes it can exercise authority based on the individual's presumed sense of justice by means of the sole point of view AND immediate, not thorough, thought.
When the focus is taken away from the power that issues regulations (but not rules), because the issuers no longer feel responsible for their actions, they have rid themselves of any vulnerability.
Although they act as shells for permanent top-down regulation of individual issues (which are available as an inexhaustible pool), they then raise their hands and say: We have placed the issue in your hands, so may you now resolve the conflict with each other (not with us), which we have prepared the ground for but which is beyond our control.
They act like a confectioner who takes an existing successful recipe for sand cakes and says: "From now on, it is forbidden to use flour for sand cakes. Anyone who uses flour anyway and is reported by those who have accepted the use of flour as criminal is confronted with the act of litigation."
And one is no longer allowed to ask how it can be that the pastry chef decides that flour can no longer be used for sand cakes. But this pastry chef points his finger at those who have accepted “flour is forbidden” and says: “Well, if I'm so wrong, why do your accusers think exactly like me?"
Basically, the legislator seem not to care what happens next.
Since he has stripped himself of his own authority - the ability to make careful considerations - to know what is needed or not needed, and to be careful with law-making anyway. He simply enacts one "law" after another because he thinks that is what is expected of him (listening only to the doomsday sayers or the utopian shouters - through the use of the screen).
But this cannot be a reasonable expectation, because a law cannot be responsible for all people and all situations and should only be invoked when there is no other alternative.
But where the legislator pretends that there is no alternative from the outset and that the actors under his alleged authority do not and cannot know anything about alternatives, he is basically saying: I am the law and I know that my law has no alternative. But if you as a people disagree, you must be able to prove it and if you can't prove it, you will be punished/must submit.
I believe this is classically referred to as “proof reversal”.
This means that individuals no longer have to assume their innocence in principle, but rather has been put as principally guilty, and must first prove their innocence.
But to whom? The individual cannot address the legislator directly. One individual has to produce a conflict with some other individual (or company) which proves the regulation wrong (and the "law" as well). Or, the individual turns to a political party which still wants to listen and debate and is in opposition to the ruling party.
Which motivates me full circle to say that "ruling" legislators seem to have turned into an irresponsible bunch who believe in nothing higher than themselves.
That is a problem with Legislatures. Once you have 10 commandments, you don't need more commandments, but legislators are paid to create laws, so they keep creating commandments that are not only unnecessary, but - because each law criminalizes an action, create breaches of these unjust laws that are treated as crimes - are actually crimes themselves.
I don't recall the actual statistics, but the various jurisdictions in the US create a stack of laws head high yearly, all of which further deprecate freedom and are crimes because they are unjust. Worse, corruption inevitably infests institutions, and some laws are intended to be crimes crooked legislators effect because they're bribed or blackmailed to do so, using saving children, terrorists, or smth to justify their enactment.
After a couple centuries this pile of tyrannies and oppressions really stacks up and turns a free country into a totalitarian despotism that societies either destroy, or are destroyed by. I reckon this is the reason we see specific evils repeated in history, despite the obvious malignance and eventual outcomes of those evils (revolution, hanging crooked politicians from lamp posts, etc.). Since each evil isn't part of some overall master plan to attain anything but some benefit desirable to the corrupters, the holistic concatenation of these evils isn't a goal, but tends to be arrived at consistently anyway.
Weimar Germany, Justinian Byzantium, and the West today all strikingly resemble one another in the specific degeneracies and lapses of just governance that degrade them, and we should not be surprised when the West ends up being resolved in the same way Byzantium, Weimar Germany, and similar degenerate states have been.
However, the technological capabilities of human society do not simply cycle. While polities rise from chaos and proceed to repeat the political cycle, technology only infrequently is reset to the Stone age. Technological advance may pause when polities being reset prevents continued development temporarily, the tech capabilities don't reset to zero, but advance from where they were when they paused.
Decentralization of means of production is quite obviously the cutting edge of every field of industry today. Dispersing production of goods and services across the population dramatically changes the dynamic of power in society. Where overlords have been necessary to manage centralized production for millennia, because the machinery of production has required collective human labor to make it work, when automation enables individuals, or much smaller and more easily managed groups, like individual households, overlords are not only no longer necessary, they are repugnant because they are so expensive.
For example, a movie studio that makes a surfer movie using the big film cameras used in the 60s has huge crews and needs expensive lawyers. Today a surfer with a gopro has no need of expensive lawyers, and would find the claim of the bar that he needed to spend $1m/year on retainers absolutely intolerable. This isn't merely some utopian fantasy. Across every field of industry this is the restructuring being undertaken today, as 3D printers, aquaponics, mesh networks, printable electronics, and the variety of automated means of production available to individuals burgeon and develop.
Add to that the increased productivity of the most advanced technology in each of the fields, such as cooking. In the Stone age you made flour by grinding grain between rocks by hand. For millennia this was the way to make flour, with gradual increases in industrial capacity from a woman with a mortar and pestle being the state of the art to Roman water powered mills built in a row along a flowing stream. Then the industrial revolution introduced the steam engine, and manufacturing capacity advanced from steam donkeys to the digitally controlled electric motors flour mills owned by corporations have today.
However the advent of household grain mills makes it unnecessary to buy bleached enriched flour from corporations that grow GMO grain doused in biocides. People can massively improve the quality of the flour they eat - which has become not just a benefit, but an existential need, because all that bleaching, enriching, and dousing is chemically castrating us to the point that testosterone has plummeted, and fertility has dropped below replacement levels. This means that people that buy or grow organic grain and grind it themselves have a massive advantage over people that buy flour from corporations, because they aren't chemically neutered and successfully breed, while people that do buy flour from overlords go extinct.
Because flour isn't the only source of such chemical pollution, people that take advantage of the most advanced technology which eliminates waste and expenses specific to centralization also gain the most benefit from the products they make themselves, because they make bespoke products exactly to their specifications, rather than mass produced crap that just gets jammed into their use case, and all the myriad ways chemical pollution gets into our diets and environment are reduced across the board. For instance I make my own toothpaste, deodorant, and other household products that don't have emulsifiers, plasticizers, or detergents in them, dramatically reducing the chemical pollution I am exposed to.
In toto, the increased benefit people and societies gain from decentralization isn't merely quantitative, but is qualitative in that it is the difference between reproductive success and failure, between freedom and slavery, between felicity and penury. Because decentralization and automation advance every field of industry this isn't just a minor change, like from land line telephones to mobile phones, but a dramatic evolution of society that is deprecating the master/slave system to replace it with freeholds of peers.
Then add the nascent advent of access to resources that aren't on Earth, like asteroid Psyche, worth ~$1Q (one quadrillion dollar). Because we can automate production of sealed environments, print solar panels, create closed loop ecologies with aquaponics that create food, water, and air, and etc., and today spacecraft are being 3D printed, the obvious result is going to be a diaspora of free people able to provide everything they need themselves to wherever valuable resources are they can develop. Because of the paradigm of centralized hierarchies depends on the entire hierarchy focusing it's abilities on the orders of the overlord, institutions like corporations, governments, and armies aren't capable of conquering and ruling diasporas. Diasporas may have little military power in each of the disparate points, but because they are managed independently there is no central point of failure an army can conquer and thereafter control the diaspora.
IOW, the rule of overlords and polities is becoming impossible, and free people will become prosperous beyond my ability to conceive as they spread out across the universe. I hope that makes more sense than my prior doom/utopian posts have. It's simply evolution of capabilities happening across the board transcending a clinal boundary, and creating new environmental conditions that are dramatically different than existed before.
Right. I often thought that one can judge every case of conflict from those very principles.
I agree very much that people become more aware of the absurdities, the more they are in their face, and that humans are ingenious in how to handle problems on their own. Becoming knowledgable and skilled in what one needs as existential tools and foods though requires time and practice, and people who can teach that kind of skills. It looks often enough like a race against time.
We need each other on every front, not only the technological one (of which there is not much I can add) but also on the political front, the cultural, the spiritual etc. - I yet have still to decide whom to join and what I am going to do with the time I have.
I talk more to people here locally, to those whom I meet in their work places , for example. Yesterday I talked to one member of a party who was on promotion tour with his colleagues, because of an upcoming election. These are local politicians, and it was good to hear from an insider what they have to say and what is going on in their minds, and what they think they already have achieved. We've talked for about an hour, I was actually on my way to do groceries. I can't give you a summary of the content, it was just too much we've touched upon.
Since I am in touch with people around me, and since I am more content with myself, I actually get along so much better with other humans than ever before, which also has to do with the fact that I became more confident in expression and what I believe is true. Same with remaining friends (the little I have). All of them appear so different from the folks I used to be with, that I hardly can believe it. There are indeed many intelligent people out there.
So yeah, let's not become hopeless, and instead do what everyone can.
LoL! Mostly it did. I am sorry that I am not directly responding to what you have talked about in detail. I am simply not competent enough to talk about the technology related stuff. My skills lay elsewhere.
I am so glad that you got it!
People think of themselves that they can be anything in one person:
a police officer, an arbitrator, a judge, a juror AND an ethically mature person. That is impossible. In oder being all of them you'd need 20 years of education and still you could't do it in one person, since that is insane.
AHA
NOW WHAT
YOU NEED TO DECIDE
ARE YOU FOR FREE SPEECH
OR ARE YOU CONDEMNING ME FOR IT ?
stupid asshole
You mistake what condemns you. It isn't that you have free speech. It's that you are malevolent.
By your judgment you are judged. You will not find such vile insults in any of my posts or comments, so I do not merit condemnation. You condemn yourself.
What is going on here?
The next user is blacklisted by @hivewachters :
https://peakd.com/hive-121566/@starthilfe/1184-diese-beitraege-brauchen-eure#@hivewatchers/sdd84s
Why are those users mentioned: @solominer @fw206 @newhope?
steht doch da.
Und was ist mit den anderen 80 Usern die einen Upvote gemacht haben?
Pustekuchen?
Vetternwirtschaft?
weißt du was dPOS ist und wie das Dezentralisierungs-Modell hier konzipiert ist ?
Geld regiert die Welt, auch hier bei #Hive.
Was bewirken schon 100 Upvotes mit 0,001 HP gegen einen Upvote mit 5, 6 oder 10 HP. Hier ist es eben die Hivepower, die Macht verleiht. Sieht jeder an seinen Postings und Upvotes. Und die großen Fische interessieren sich wohl nicht so sehr dafür, was die @hivewatchers so machen, bzw. nicht machen.
Ja, Sozialismus haben wir hier auf jeden Fall nicht.
Zum Glück.
Geld ist übrigens auch nicht böse, vor allem nicht wenn es nicht mehr ein Monopol von unseren Erzfeinden gibt, diese es nicht mehr willkürlich für Krieg inflationieren können und es vor allem einen Wettbewerb für das beste Geld gibt.
Wünsche dir alles Beste. Viel Erfolg beim Lernen.
Hivewatchers ist schon lange ein Problem. Doch die Community interessiert sich eben nicht dafür sich selbst für besseren Anti-Abuse einzusetzen.
Einfach nur jeden Anti-Abuse abzuschaffen und sich weiterhin um nichts kümmern (wie ihr alle es hier scheinbar wollt) wäre der sofortige Tod der Plattform (willkommen Scammer, bye Hive)
Geld ist per se nicht böse, aber es verleiht Macht und die kann so oder so eingesetzt werden.
https://peakd.com/deutsch/@blkchn/hive-blackliste-hive-blacklist
https://peakd.com/deutsch/@blkchn/re-blkchn-sdj03s
Umso schlimmer, wenn man die Macht eines Geldmonopols hat.. weswegen es nun dezentrale Ansätze gibt.
Dafür muss man jedoch auch die dezentrale Selbstregulierung (Downvotes auf Hive, da das neue "Geld" [Inflation] dezentral über Rewards verteilt werden, braucht es auch einen Mechanismus der Abuse verhindert) geben.
Hivewatchers ist keine gute Lösung, trotzdem die Beste die wir haben.
Dezentrale Selbstregulierungsmechanismen /-projekte sind bisher alle gescheitert (wir haben Einiges versucht), hauptsächlich wegen mangelnder Teilname.
Alle wollen nur Selbstregulierung abschaffen, sich jedoch nicht für eine Alternative (mit eigener Zeit und finanziellen Mitteln/ Votes) einsetzen.
So kommen wir nicht weiter.
Deswegen sind wir wo wir sind. (mit Hivewatchers)
Bleibt spannend.
The funding serves no purpose except making those involved receive high stakes for very little contribution and minimal investment.
so we revive a good decentralized anti-abuse system ?
Thank you for your witness vote!
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BEER.Would be interesting, what the wittnesses have to say to all this.
Is there a statement anywhere?
Saying anything doesn't work in 'their' favor.
Taking a position might cost 'them' politically.
'They' also think of us as 'them'.
This kind of thinking doesn't help.
There is less butter on 'our' side of the bread.
For now.
'They' should be expected to act as expected, by the one with the most butter.
Crapitalism makes 'us' 'all' whores.
Living under the bridge is not all that attractive when you can sell something as cheap as your soul.
Sell something as cheap as your soul? LoL
/S
¿/S?
eerm... Did you wanted to say...
Sorry, sarcasm.
Hahaha, don't worry mate. You know I get you. We are soulmates!
According to 'Citizens United', money is speech.
There's your answers.
Thanks!
So Hive is just a mirror of the world outside.
Or even more extreme here: Money/HivePower rules.
But, we can code it how we want it. We don't have to replicate plutocracy. If we make Hive right, we will remake IRL, too. Change is afoot, and the world is evolving economically. We can take the bull by the horns, or do what we're doing, which is getting gored.
We? Who is we?
All the users or the few with fat HivePower?
1000 Users with 0,001 HP against on with 5,000 HP?
Who decides what is coded?
This is a matter I have struggled with for a long time. Before @ned did us dirty he gave several talks on how to use oracles and 1a1v to eliminate bots, which greatly encouraged me at the time. There are several identity mechanisms that have been proposed claiming to be able to prove an account is run by a single human being, to identify that single human such that they cannot have multiple accounts, and as far as 1a1v on Hive, I am not willing to limit such democratic voting by any other metric than that.
I particularly find plutocracy vexing, despite knowing that merely having money doesn't establish one is a vile thief (I only know this because I have good friends that are less poor than me). There are too many examples of highly staked persons with execrable moral and ethical standards, insert your favorite villains here. However, in fact folks with substantial stake have a lot of capability to impact matters, and obvious reasons to be extremely dedicated to ensuring things aren't off the chain - or, conversely, to skew things in their favor. It seems then that folks with substantial stake have more basis for influencing matters than me, who has little stake to risk.
This is true even in non-monetary economies, such as the Potlatch economies of the PNW natives in which a chief is availed the authority to parcel out resources to the tribe. I can but console myself that I cannot be expected to answer your question definitively, but that doesn't resolve the matter either.
I was addressing exactly this issue years ago with one of the witnesses, and was told that such identifying function was either not doable or could be tricked, as well. I am not sure any more what exactly was said but the overall message was "no".
I am neither convinced such an oracle exists, as I have only read claims, and never seen a demonstration. If an oracle could provide such identity verification without biometric data, I just wouldn't be interested in further limitations or modifications, like stake, on such verifiable individual votes.
Is Hive a dead horse and you should change it quickly?
https://peakd.com/hive-127788/@julianhorack/life-after-hive-the-junk-that-washes-up-as-the-sol-rises-on-my-beautiful-beach
I am not holding out much hope, TBQH. However I get what I came here for every time I come here, which is forthright speech from people that I can learn from. I didn't come here for money. I came here for free speech. That hasn't been completely eradicated here, yet.
I hope there is a future, but we will see.
But here are some users that only want free speech when it is their own opinion.
LOL
Just feed the pointless SPAMINATOR TROLL & then the Whales are happy earning more HIVE 🤠
Nothing will change, as nobody cares! LOL 🤡
^^
They have no reasons to care, because there are no rewards for objectionable speech. Instead the Hive code creates a plutocracy by curation rewards enabling circle jerks.
Hive could create proper incentives by properly valuing free speech. Social media is the largest financial sector in the world, and it has only arisen in the last decade or so. Clearly Hive could be coded to properly take advantage of this, however, the oligarchy prefers to maintain their fangs buried into our life's blood and their power to rule the little pond.
Either Hive will revise it's code to value free speech above all else, or someone else will.
Thanks!
Having centralized anti-abuse is not all bad, imo.
The question becomes is it profitable, both for the chain to redistribute it and the abusers.
Clearly the abusers are getting what they need, or they wouldn't do it.
So, now the question is how much total abuse is happening.
I got no problem financing some anti-abuse efforts but the the big picture is not being adequately illustrated.
How much abuse is happening outside trending?
Nobody can do anything about that abuse, at this point.
I don't think tying hw's compensation to the amount of redistribution is a good idea, and if the amount of abuse doesn't rise to the costs involved with centralized overhead, then some median would have to be arrived at by 'the community'.
Or, the plutocracy can decree whatever because they hodl the power.
That has 'worked' up to now because 'the community' has failed to reach an organizational power level adequate to change things.
I'd say if you don't like how hw's is doing it, then offer a viable alternative.
Until the community is ready to step up, organize, and replace the good that hw's does, I'd vote for keeping them.
Until 'the community' is ready to step up and stop the trending abuse, this is what we get, continued centralization of power.
best comment
Thank you.
I made another one.
@jarvie @asgarth can we get subscriptions to posts, ie allow notifications of comments by others on posts we opt to follow?
It's too easy to forget to come back two days later to see what other comments have come in, let alone comments that come in much later.
This feature would increase engagement, imo.
you can bookmark comments :)
The Hive code needs to value free speech above all else, and deprecate mere financial concerns. Most of all, it needs to not be a pure plutocracy, because IRL is proof of how that turns out.
Not worth a single cent.
Unfund it
Whats the alternative? At least they are doing something x)
You and a few other big accounts, are fighting anti-abuse, but not a lot is :/
Doing nothing would actually save us $270/day as they are paid more than 10x the abuse they deal with.
Touché
The alternative is you start using that downvote mana of yours.
It seems that I am doing that daily :)
!LOL STOP SMOKING THE !WEED YOU FARMER
Thank you for your witness vote!
Have a !BEER on me!
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BEER.Of more concern to me is that the definition of abuse keeps expanding, while with each expansion they claim it was always in the definition and always part of their scope.
The more the definition of abuse is expanded, the more it gets into areas that should be up to broader consensus, not a centrally funded effort. And the more users and communities are alienated.
It is my opinion that the lost market value from decent people leaving Hive and selling out their holdings exceeds the 'saved' value from HW's abuse elimination by orders of magnitude.
The definition is whatever they feel like for the day. They refuse to do anything about the 100 accounts grampo farms with like cleangirl. Also remember they were one of the largest self vote abusers before they got their golden ticket by upvoting 60-90 comments a day for $1-2 each while downvoting people who did the same.
Hive Watchers had been already downvoting "cleangirl" account months before your "buildawhale" account started downvoting it.
The same with this group ("buildawhale started DV-ing a few of them):
alena-deryabina
alexwo
beardmen
cwoong
dasunkwo
estarda
flodareltih
fozzy
francuzzz
goshy
huanan
ien
imaran
immortal8000
iotman
logmen
pixelpenguin
qazaq
sobaken763
wekin
yarrik
Since we noticed that "buildawhale" started downvotuing some of them on day 6, we stopped downvoting those accounts downvoted by "buildawhale".
Guilty specifically said he won't downvote it because "it's a dapp", same with all the grampo accounts.
@guiltyparties
You mean, you stopped doing your job because you figured someone would do it for you for free while you still rake in the funds.
Ich steh wohl inzwischen auch schon auf einer dieser #Blacklist der @hivewatchers
I do think that those who are getting proposal funding need to be accountable and justify what they get. There is no breakdown here. Hosting a site and some services will not be that expensive, but if people are working full time on this then they may expect to be paid. The proposal implies that they get something for their time.
I have seen so many complaints about HW, but then most people will not take any action against abuse. I think it would be much worse without HW or something similar. They have to be fair in how they treat people. We will get lots of people desperate to make money who get bad advice on how to do it here. I would rather see them guided to better behaviour than driven away as that leads to them spreading bad vibes. There are cases of organised abuse that can be tricky to track down. If we had a massive influx of users then things could quickly ramp up.
I've been involved in some other anti-abuse, but it can lead to threats and so most people stay anonymous. I have talked to HW people and they are not the power-crazed monsters that some portray them as. I can understand if they get stressed out. I know there are plenty of feuds between various Hivers that get pretty heated.
There is obvious an image problem with HW and we need to find compromises to improve that. The proposal funding needs to go where it does the most good, but that is really determined by the largest accounts. We have to find the right balance so that Hive can actually grow. Driving away new users can harm us all and the whales have the most to lose.
The main reason the proposal was raised like 300% was for a dev to redo their site, which as far as I have seen hasn't been done and it still doesn't even work. Their site is stupid simple too. Doesn't require $350/day, nor does fighting less than $20/day in abuse.
Yeah, the site has not changed in ages and is not great. As I understand it proposals are a binary thing so they either get the requested funding or not. Maybe they should have separate ones for running costs and for new developments.
All too true, and happened literally a million times already.
I have seen some screenshots from their discord that suggest otherwise. Absolutely reprehensible behaviour towards people that seek off the blacklist, and concede they will reform their ways.
Personally, I reckon they should conduct their business on chain, and not on discord. Hive business is not discord's, and discord is a malevolent surveillance device, and HW business should be on chain where everyone can see how they treat folks.
It's not just an image. They opinion flag. It's utterly contrary to the purpose of Hive. They don't need to compromise. They need to quit censoring free speech and stick to their baileywick of censoring spam, scams, and plagiarism. They also should not be profiteering by self voting with funds from Hive. That's just scammy.
There are some nasty people around here, but also a lot who really care about Hive. Some will use their power to attack others. I just think that it's not as black and white as some make out.
Does this also apply to their compatriot service called steemcleaners?
The both of these accounts continue their harassment without any explanation.
I can't speak for them as I don't see what they do.
They want to control the bad behaviors on Hive. Is there anyone controls the bad behaviors from Hive watchers?
Funny thing, before they got their funding they were abusing more than anyone else self voting 60-90 comments a day for $1-2 while flagging others for doing the same thing for a couple cents.
the only reason im on hive is to stream. but one dude doesnt like my videos so he is flagging them since 1.5 years. im not here for writing stupid things or post one picture from a tree. But im not allowed to do what i want and like. instead one guy uses his power to dictate what i have to do.... it's like communism here
Is Hive Watcher's doing a good job?
"Total waste of money. They drive away good users in their pursuit of policing.
Badly operated. Bad communication. Terrible people skills. Total waste of money."
There isn't enough information to vote on this poll. At face value, it's not worth it. However, how much abuse would the platform suffer if they didn't do their "job"? That is the real question. Can this even be quantified?
An issue that I have with the proposal from @hivewatchers is that it does not break down the costs. How much is spent on its infrastructure, labor, etc? I would like to see specifics.
They stop less than $20 of abuse a day yet get paid $290/day and asked for $350/day. It can be quantified quite well.
I get that. In my opinion, we cannot quantify the amount of "abuse" that would happen on top of what already does. The current cost/benefit is not worth it if your numbers are accurate.
THEY ARE FARMING HIVE
For me it is now the case that not only new posts get a downvote, but also all of my comments that I get votes on. where is that still fair?
I think there is enough room for Hivewatchers to improve their proccess and better explaining to us how and why they do their thing.
I've been always against downvoting, mainly to prevent wars between users. I do agree that hivewatchers uses downvoting as a tool to clean the space, nothing more, nothing less.
I would like to see more info on how they distribute funding.
As I said above, more dialog witth community would enlighten people's view.
This is only my onw personal opinion.
Cheers
4 days ago in #life by tarazkp (84)$0.00
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[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 2 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
Team marky @gogreenbuddy part of the @markymark @buildawhale @usainvote @apeminingclub @makerhacks @upmyvote @punkteam @rollingbones @theycallmemarky @memess @blockheadgames @leovoter @ipromote gang
STOP THE DOWNVOTE ABUSE STOP SELF VOTING WITH ALL THESE ALT ACCOUNTS