RE: Is Hive Watcher's doing a good job?
You are viewing a single comment's thread:
Total waste of money.
They drive away good users in their pursuit of policing.
Badly operated.
Bad communication.
Terrible people skills.
Total waste of money.
At $350 per day we could be running marketing campaigns.
Advertising.
Community contests.
All for less than this.
0
0
0.000
so what are you ideas on how the community does anti-abuse without hivewatchers?
will you do it?
it is just a handful voluntary people - the same since half a decade - who contribute their free time for hive anti-abuse (even countered harmful flags from flag wars @freezepeach) - and got no payment
we also do not like Hivewatchers, but they at least do something, where the big community does not care for itself..
thoughts ?
If it's voluntary why is it costing $350 a day??? Where is the money going.
I have no problem with countering abuse but i've seen HW drive away regular users by targeting them with downvotes for stupid reasons.
No explanation, no warning and no talking to them.
A proper set up would have an account with delegated HP for downvotes.
A specific reporting structure with a list of offences. Standardized so it's clear when and why a person is infringing on the community.
Report an infringement to the team.
First a friendly warning and show them where the problem lies.
If still breaking guidelines a small downvote maybe 10% of the reward.
If persistent offending then increase the downvote but a clear and specific structure on how it would work with open channels of communication.
I have no problem with a person being paid to run a service like this but it needs to be ran as a proper full time service and professionally done not just throwing downvotes around the place and refusing to interact with people in a proper way.
I've been here 7 years myself and have seen a lot over that time. I was targeted by whales back in the early days and almost driven off the platform with downvotes. They should be used sparingly and only for real abuse. Downvotes are harmful and have driven away a lot of users over the past 7 years.
It is voluntary, cuz we (and you if you voluntarily join countering abuse) dont earn anything.
We also get none of the 350$ a day for Hivewatchers ("we" is just decentralized voluntary community members) but if you want to stop Hivewatchers, we need more voluntary help
I fight against abuse when and where i see it.
Not silly stuff or newbies making mistakes.
I will flag if i see plagiarized posts or straight up circle voting.
I'm happy to help hive in anyway possible to weed out users abusing the system or hurting our community but not flagging for the sake of it.
If nobody is getting the $290 per day then where is this funding going to??
I'm just a guy like you..
I'd also prefer abolishing HW - it's not a new discussion
but I am against those newly wanting to abolish it since only a few days, cuz their farming sheme got busted by HW
Going to the wallets of the 2 supposed "Hivewatchers".
Chances are, it's just one person with a fake partner.
Not all transactions are onchain. There is too much obfuscation of how HW applies it's funding. There are too many good posters that are oppressed without cessation, literally 1M users driven from the platform since I've been here!
The influence of affluence has derailed HW's mission. Sketchy flags are flown against creators that post things objectionable to oligarchs on Hive, despite those posts not being spam, scams, or plagiarism. Bizarrely, when discussing posters chased off, claims are made that users don't promote Hive on other platforms, but people that post here what they also post elsewhere HW calls that plagiarism. That is exactly bass ackwards, as censorial platforms like Fakebook and Twatter send people looking for alternatives and posting their content to lots of platforms, Hive censors them instead of avails them a safe and rewarding place to post it.
I am confident that backdoor payments off chain are rewarding the more blatant opinion flagging HW continues - for years - on users that may have reposted their OWN CONTENT, or for some other excuse, despite those posters posting original content here. I donate a percentage of my author rewards to several of them, but I have to keep moving to new ones as they give up and quit posting here.
HW is flagging content creators off the platform, and nothing is worse for Hive as a community of content creators. Funding for flagging should be eliminated, and funding - as I am doing by donating 1/4 of my author rewards to flagged authors - should be promoting free speech improperly flagged instead. Hive needs to build it's community, not flag it until the creators find Twatter and Fakebook preferable. The bizarre humiliation ritual people are forced to undergo to get HW off their back is utterly unacceptable. It is blatantly malevolent. There are innumerable similar features of HW practices, and the certainty of off chain encomiums paying for opinion flags has tainted Hive with a stench that will take years to wash off when we do start defending free speech instead of flagging objectionable speech into the dust.
Spam, scams, and plagiarism should be met with appropriate response FROM THE COMMUNITY which has been empowered to defend itself. The funding availed HW should be DEFENDING free speech instead of crushing it.
Hi @niallon11
It would be probably better to check up on the actual proposal and discover a bit about the HW's actual activity. It is 290/day not 350/day.
For the marketing campaign, there is already a proposal running called "Value Plan".
https://hivel.ink/valueplan/@valueplan/q3-value-plan-proposal
If you have marketing ideas, you are welcome to forward them to @guityparties.
Regarding, themarkymark.
He has considered himself a Hive Blockchain martyr who has always done all the abuse fighting himself (that is limited to triggering his downvote bot on some accounts to auto-clear rewards on day 6) while no one else did any abuse fighting. At the same time, he has never done a single investigation on a single post to look for plagiarism, identity theft, etc.
He has been running the same tape "Steemcleaners/Hivewatchers do not deserve anything and I do all abuse fighting" since 2016. Our project/proposal is not the only one. He attacks all proposals. Maybe it's because he tried a proposal once and it never got a pass.
Since 2016, we have already explained in detail to him multiple times what tasks abuse fighting constitutes. The last time was in January.
Wow "only" 290$.
For what?
Please answer it in my Post from yesterday, hope you read it and Answer the other Questions, too.
For blacklisting people like me, for example. In 2023, February, i have big problem with these people, or, maybe, 1-3 people, that claims to be hive watchers here. The discussion then is going about 2 months with these people, and they blocked , or blacklisted me, just because i use AI to beauty my posts. Now, a year after, PeakD has implemented AI for all the pople here, without no problems. But I'm still on the blacklist, so... That's are our great Salvation, the Hive Watchers here.
If you wish, you can look in my history of comments, and you will see, what a big-big discussion has been there, on many posts, and they blacklisted my comments too, so, they have that power... We don't. And we should use this as a free and decentralized community. It is not, it is just an illusion, what we are thinking the Hive is.
So, take a look on my journey and look at my comments about a year ago, and you will see, what a problems we have here, and who are these people in Hive Watchers. They use the power of others to punish self wishes and whistles. They blocked me before they have any of project there about how to use AI, or anything about AI. They just blacklisted people, just because some of them, don't like AI. Therefore, I have stop posting on Hive. They expect that all people should known all what they (self's) want. And that's b.s.
They create just problems here on Hive, but they claim they are like the gods here. They don't listen to us, people. If they think, someone make a mistake, they should first contact that person, and say, hey, look, do not use this, or do not do this, because of this. And if someone keep doing that thing, then blacklisting them, but not, without warning, without anything, just go and blacklisting all people, for example, who have used AI. Today, anything is AI. So what now? do we close the Hive?
We need to un-power this Hive watchers team, and create another one, with voting, and now polling too. Not just blindly keep giving power to these people in that hivewatchers tema what is now.
Folks, remove the voting and your HP given to this people in Hive Watchers tema, immediately, before they destroy the Hive. Great people go away from Hive, everyday. They go to blurp.blog, or bastyon.com, or minds.com, ...
Guys, we need to come to an agreement and simply delete this hive watchers team (2-3 people) from the tron forever. Otherwise we risk the title of this post.
Here are a few more posts from back then, where we had, so to speak, a very, very big discussion, but, to no avail, they just do what they want:
Post they made 2 months after they blacklisted me because before, they didn't have one:
https://peakd.com/ai/@hivewatchers/ai-generated-content-not-original-content#@elameadows/re-obsesija-sdc4mc
Then, this:
https://peakd.com/hive-157935/@emma-h/human-says-no#@obsesija/re-emma-h-rrg5uu
And this post:
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@whatsup/the-great-ai-debate-and-hive-watchers#@valued-customer/re-obsesija-rrndw8
and this one:
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@whatsup/the-great-ai-debate-and-hive-watchers#@galenkp/re-obsesija-rrjanf
... and this one too:
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@edicted/ai-content-is-too-easy#@arc7icwolf/re-obsesija-202338t163639458z
Please look at all the comments there, there are a lot of comments (mine are hidden almost everywhere, because the big HW team made it so that other people shouldn't see my comments, too much information from me about who they are, etc what they do.)
Greetings
I miss your posts.
Post moar.
Thanks!
I can't post, because, I'm on the blacklist, and, if I would post anything, all of my rewards would be removed, automatically.
Hope, some days, we have that decentralized group of people, or accounts, that represent real Hivewatchers, voted from people to people.
Or maybe, we create another Hive ecosystem, outside of this one.
We just need the developers should be aware of this problems too, and hope, that they would see the difficult of the problems HW create on Hive.
But, I have been worked on my own web site for food:
https://kuvaj-peci.top
you can visit it. Recipes are just in Serbian, for now, but the Web site is multilang, so the recipes would be translated on some point.
Many thanks
I am happily surprised to note you remain active here despite the censorship that reduces your ability to benefit from using the platform. If it would help incentivize you to remain here, I can add you to the few censored voices I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to.
You have but to let me know. I deeply appreciate folks here that aren't pandering suckups, that state forthrightly such facts they are in possession of, that rattle the bars of the financial cage Hive has become dominated by the censorship ring the oligarchy uses to repress Hive growth so they don't become little fish in a larger pond IRL stake would snap up like the minnows Hive whales are, as Steem demonstrated.
Avarice is the enemy of societal felicity, here as everywhere. It is good to find principled people in an environment filled with sycophants and coprophagic parasites worming their way up whales' alimentary tracts.
Edit: I can't translate your site yet using Brave, that provides some translation into English. Let me know if you manage to get some translation going so I can make heads or tails out of the content you provide there. I'm sure I'd be interested in it.
@cheetah used to do that. It was vastly preferable. However, there is a group that is censoring Hive users, and @cheetah didn't cut it for them. They are throwing their stake at flagging people they don't like, not spam, scams, and plagiarism, and they've all but killed Hive - to keep the rewards pool for themselves.
HW and Steemcleaners are some of their weapons, and everything you've said is truthful and factually correct. I was part of those confrontations back in 2023, and I firmly support your statements to this day.
Hi @valued-customer many thanks for your support in this regards.
I hope that people who gave them power, do the un-powering some day, and that we can create a more decentralized one, voting with pools now, and not just with voting power.
I miss that Hive community too, because, i invest many years to build my reputation, and my profile here, but, because of them, i stop posting, because, they have me on their blacklist.
Hope some days the HW is gone, and the new generation of decentralized HW would be created, and then, i will post again.
Many thanks for all.
Greetings
You originally asked and got paid $350/day (blindly and immediately, even before you had a single comment on your proposal) until enough people made a stink about it and you reduced it to keep the gravy train going.
Hi hivewatchers.
Regardless of $290 or $350 where is that funding going to and why would you need $105K per year to downvote a few posts???
I've reread your proposal and it's vague. Without clear guidelines, instructions or help for people wanting to deal with your team. The website has not been developed and overall it's a small group of people exerting control over the community as it sees fit often to the detriment of that same community.
Where is the breakdown of these costs.
Why is there no clear list of infringements and related penalties.
Why is there no proper structure for reporting, disputing and process.
Where is the breakdown of value saved for the community as you claim.
Where is the cost of all the decent users that have been driven away by your downvotes.
Just zeroing rewards from users is not helping the platform or it's community.
We only have about 5000 active bloggers so these costs are absurd and this set up is not working for the majority of the community. The only reason that it has funding is due to @smooth and @blocktrades voting it.
I don't care about themarkymark. I'm not a huge fan of his. He has done both good and bad for hive but i agree with him on this current topic and have never been afraid to speak my mind. It's not my first year on hive and i've seen the damage that flagging has done over those years setting us back years in terms of user growth and retention.
This is false. There are many other voters. If I unvoted it, for example, it would still be funded (which would not be the case if @blocktrades were the only remaining vote).
Furthermore, if either or both of us changed our vote, there is no way to know how other stakeholders might respond by also changing their votes, potentially changing the outcome yet again.
Your conception of how DHF voting works is a bit off.
Firstly, good to see you still around. Been a long time since i saw your name pop up in a comment section.
Fair enough. Your 6m (inc proxy) wouldn't drop it below the return proposal.
I do know how it works and i did say due to you both supporting it.
But blocktrades 23M and your 6M is roughly 80% of the support for the proposal from just two accounts. Not very reflective of community or decentralized.
Now i can't predict the outcomes but if you both stopped supporting it then it's hard to see the proposal getting over the return limit.
What you're ignoring is that there may well be other large stakeholders would vote for it if one or both of us didn't.
I can tell you for sure that I don't bother to vote for some proposals even if I support them for the simple reason that I see they're already approved and they don't need my vote. If they started to drop down too much on the list, I'd vote for them.
Anyway, the point I'm making is that voting is dynamic and you can't look at static votes as telling the conclusive "reason" why it is or isn't approved.
You are falsely denying you and blocktrades have controlling stake, just as BlackRock does of corporations, without have the majority of stake.
Suckups pander to you whales. Quit being disingenuous.
I own about 1.5% of Hive.
And BlackRock at al gain controlling interest in stock corporations with as little as 5-10%. Investors largely follow leaders that demonstrate facility attaining ROI, which is why it's calleda controlling interest, rather than a majority interest.
By Blackrock et al, you mean Blackrock + Vanguard + State Street + Fidelity + Other similar.
Even excluding the others, they usually own about 20%+
The first three. It's true they usually have a larger stake than 10%. Different solutions needed for different problems. Hive is remarkably stable with ~3 dozen whales, at least since I've been aboard, and that creates plenty of opportunity to shmooz and coordinate, which I am confident you do well, as does Dan.
You can believe what you like but I don't coordinate anything with anyone. I have only the vaguest notion of who the whales are at this point, other than BT, who I don't know well and don't communicate with regularly.
Well, as I noted, appearances can be deceiving. I appreciate your cordial reply.
Yeah why are you so different
Judging after some appearance you fucking fascists asshole
That is the opposite of what I said. What I said was:
Because of your misunderstanding of the meaning of language and it's consequences, while I state:
You state:
You judge yourself. It's not the fact you speak that is the problem. It's the content of your speech that reveals who you are. Perhaps you'd be less pitiable and despicable if you weren't so evil. Give it a try.
Should I quote you on how you fucked up quoting me?
No self-reflection
How are appearances deceiving? Cuz you short-mindedly judge
Go ahead and hunt me "evil" away from this platform and my country, join the fascists.
I dont give a fuck, that's why I am here.
Yes. If you quote me, you will have to at least see what I did say, even if you don't understand it. At least that will give you an opportunity to attempt comprehension, which clearly has escaped you at the moment.
here, you are talking as if I was hivewatcher
spamming me with your projections, defending fascists openly telling me they want to hunt me out of the country, judge me for downvoting such an "opinion" (as you call it)
and then crying about my replies to your spam, defending me
fuck you, projecting matter-less being
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdn61z
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdn8ca
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdn8wx
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdnp6d
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@theycallmemarky/is-hive-watchers-doing-a-good-job#@valued-customer/re-woelfchen-sdnpmx
my condensed reply:
https://peakd.com/hive-104500/@woelfchen/re-valued-customer-sdqqfw
Instead of quoting me, you tried to link to the comments, but because there's so many comments you just linked to the original post by Marky. All the links above just go to his OP.
Anyway, don't bother. I have realized you're in crisis and are having a psychotic break. What you need to is get together with a real human being you love and trust, and quit deranging yourself by ranting at your computer. Please get the help you need.
No, they dont.
They go to the exact comment, do not open them in new tabs.
Stop projecting onto me, you psychopaths, I can insult and hate your actions without being as you fascistically project the world to be.
You will be shocked even more, how people will continue to react to your out-of-control normopathy.
So far he's the only one making sense, you are very much deranged by interjecting that reply that triggered you into screeching at whatever hypocrisy or deception you thought you noticed yet you can't even put into a words, let alone a succinct response and you're so deranged that you believe you can project people as persons separate from their actions, because hating their actions doesn't mean you hate the person, the clickytyclack making sense is a sure sign you're deranged and projecting. Image thinking you're the 'good guy' though..
lol you just do exactly what you compain about
you can't even put into word what you want to communicate to me without all the degenerated crap words in between
anyway, you do not even need to try, cuz I will not argue about any random projections (no matter if by you or anyone else) - I got more important stuff to do than dispute with giant babys on the internet WHO IS RIGHT - you havent even understood the basics and still want to press your worldview onto others like god-damn fascists
keep on projecting, who even cares
you can go to whoever and project onto them some hivewatcher shit, while even knowing better that I have zero to do with it
you can do that with random other people, you can talk to some random "AI"
just leave me alone, shut up with ur craps, I dont want to hear it
and now don't come to me and cry how I want to shut you up.
I cannot and I do not have this power. But I can still say: shut the fuck up
Leave me alone, I have not allowed you to harass and coerce me into interaction.
It is my right to refuse and you have absolutely no power over me.
psycho
Especially if I don't give a fuck and especially after @valued-customer defends people that literally threathen to hunt me off HIVE and even out of MY COUNTRY GERMANY (no worry, I will leave this gulag voluntarily)
Ever heard of free speech?
Shut up and fuck you all, assholes
Ever heard of free speech?
but what do I even tell you, you cannot even differentiate between persons and their actions
you are just like fascists, just turning it around
go join the fascist "anti-fascists" and hunt and kill people who you believe to be evil
go party in your extinction crap
just leave us alone
keep screeching, but I wont care anymore, I also stopped with anti-abuse after @valued-customer asking me so kindly
good luck
I realize you surmount ESL to muddle through communicating in English here, which is admirable. The inability to understand my statements isn't just from the language barrier, however.
You've clearly suffered some kind of psychotic break recently, which is apparent in the dramatic and vivid changes in your posts and comments. You project your deranged hallucinations onto me without any rational basis and I just have no edumacation in dealing with florid psychosis, so can only respectfully suggest you seek such loving family or friends as are available to provide care you need.
I hope you reach out to people you love and that love you, so you get through this and recover your reason, which I knew you to express in the past.
Well said!
!WEED !MEME !PGM
Credit: atheistrepublic
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
please finally just suck his dick and leave me alone
go jerk with some fascists germans
you are a great fit
I will also not argue with you about your fucked up projections
go choose someone else you can whine on about hivewatcher
We could have done something better than Hivewatcher, YEARS AGO, but you idiots did not care
Keep whining
you probably also have the psychotic break - as you just keep projecting
truly an absolutely perfect fit, probably the ultimate fit with @indextrader24
best luck, leave me alone, I dont give a fuck about your hope
you will get what you deserve
FAKE HIVE POLICE
HIVE IS DEAD
HIVE IS ONE BIG FARM
!LOL !WEED !MEME
https://hive.blog/hive-104387/@bpcvoter3/se19g2
Downvoted BY HIVE FARMERS
6 days ago in #life by slobberchops (81)$0.00
Reply 3
Sort: Trending
[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 4 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
NO DOWNVOTES FOR MARKY MARK'S SELF VOTING !WEED
https://hive.blog/life/@slobberchops/re-gogreenbuddy-sdr1wb
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive
https://www.reddit.com/r/stoptheabuseonhive/
https://peakd.com/hive-164833/@bilpcoinbpc/you-have-all-witnessed-this-account-being-downvoted-to-a-negative-reputation-for-no-reason
SHAME ON YOU ALL SAD PEOPLE WHO SCAM LIE AND FARM HIVE AND HIVERS
[-]acidyo (82) 3 months ago
Haha at "I shouldn't make commercial" :D Maybe something to worry about when you have more youtube subscribers! Quite interesting content though, these things should get more subs on there and here.
$4.28
1 vote
Reply
[-]gogreenbuddy (67) 3 months ago
Yeah thought that was funny too
$4.54
4 votes
gogreenbuddy: $4.47
acidyo: $0.06
holbein81: $0.01
koleso: -$0.00
https://hive.blog/life/@gogreenbuddy/i-had-to-give-up-on-my-gabion-fencing-too-much-work
@themarkymark @buildawhale farm
HE MAKES CURATION REWARDS WITH ALL HIS ALT ACCOUNTS BURNING TOKENS LIKE THIS DOES NOT TAKE OLD TOKENS IT MINTS NEW ONES AND BURNS THEM
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
https://www.bilpcoin.com/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
Credit: fun.miner
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
and again:
fuck you
ever heard of free speech?
the only reason I am here
to say even more fuck you to people like you, who try to do their psycho games
FAKE HIVE POLICE
HIVE IS DEAD
HIVE IS ONE BIG FARM
!LOL !WEED !MEME
https://hive.blog/hive-104387/@bpcvoter3/se19g2
Downvoted BY HIVE FARMERS
6 days ago in #life by slobberchops (81)$0.00
Reply 3
Sort: Trending
[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 4 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
NO DOWNVOTES FOR MARKY MARK'S SELF VOTING !WEED
https://hive.blog/life/@slobberchops/re-gogreenbuddy-sdr1wb
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive
https://www.reddit.com/r/stoptheabuseonhive/
https://peakd.com/hive-164833/@bilpcoinbpc/you-have-all-witnessed-this-account-being-downvoted-to-a-negative-reputation-for-no-reason
SHAME ON YOU ALL SAD PEOPLE WHO SCAM LIE AND FARM HIVE AND HIVERS
[-]acidyo (82) 3 months ago
Haha at "I shouldn't make commercial" :D Maybe something to worry about when you have more youtube subscribers! Quite interesting content though, these things should get more subs on there and here.
$4.28
1 vote
Reply
[-]gogreenbuddy (67) 3 months ago
Yeah thought that was funny too
$4.54
4 votes
gogreenbuddy: $4.47
acidyo: $0.06
holbein81: $0.01
koleso: -$0.00
https://hive.blog/life/@gogreenbuddy/i-had-to-give-up-on-my-gabion-fencing-too-much-work
@themarkymark @buildawhale farm
HE MAKES CURATION REWARDS WITH ALL HIS ALT ACCOUNTS BURNING TOKENS LIKE THIS DOES NOT TAKE OLD TOKENS IT MINTS NEW ONES AND BURNS THEM
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
https://www.bilpcoin.com/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
Credit: orionvk
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
Not gonna read all that but nice try.
!WEED !MEME !PGM
Credit: filosof103
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
your degenerated attention span wont let you
go back to your extinction idiots
I'm sure that makes sense in your moronic sense.
Why are idiots such epic losers?
You doing ok over there?
Haven't seen you in a while.
FAKE HIVE POLICE
HIVE IS DEAD
HIVE IS ONE BIG FARM
!LOL !WEED !MEME
https://hive.blog/hive-104387/@bpcvoter3/se19g2
Downvoted BY HIVE FARMERS
6 days ago in #life by slobberchops (81)$0.00
Reply 3
Sort: Trending
[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 4 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
NO DOWNVOTES FOR MARKY MARK'S SELF VOTING !WEED
https://hive.blog/life/@slobberchops/re-gogreenbuddy-sdr1wb
https://www.publish0x.com/the-dark-side-of-hive
https://www.reddit.com/r/stoptheabuseonhive/
https://peakd.com/hive-164833/@bilpcoinbpc/you-have-all-witnessed-this-account-being-downvoted-to-a-negative-reputation-for-no-reason
SHAME ON YOU ALL SAD PEOPLE WHO SCAM LIE AND FARM HIVE AND HIVERS
[-]acidyo (82) 3 months ago
Haha at "I shouldn't make commercial" :D Maybe something to worry about when you have more youtube subscribers! Quite interesting content though, these things should get more subs on there and here.
$4.28
1 vote
Reply
[-]gogreenbuddy (67) 3 months ago
Yeah thought that was funny too
$4.54
4 votes
gogreenbuddy: $4.47
acidyo: $0.06
holbein81: $0.01
koleso: -$0.00
https://hive.blog/life/@gogreenbuddy/i-had-to-give-up-on-my-gabion-fencing-too-much-work
@themarkymark @buildawhale farm
HE MAKES CURATION REWARDS WITH ALL HIS ALT ACCOUNTS BURNING TOKENS LIKE THIS DOES NOT TAKE OLD TOKENS IT MINTS NEW ONES AND BURNS THEM
https://hive.blog/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
https://www.bilpcoin.com/hive-167922/@bilpcoinbpc/the-power
Credit: shaungerow
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
Here's a marketing idea: quit flagging our marketing team. Everyone that posts content here AND elsewhere draws eyeballs here. That's marketing.
Quit killing the golden goose.
SCUMBAGS
4 days ago in #life by tarazkp (84)$0.00
Reply 2
Sort: Trending
[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 2 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
Team marky @gogreenbuddy part of the @markymark @buildawhale @usainvote @apeminingclub @makerhacks @upmyvote @punkteam @rollingbones @theycallmemarky @memess @blockheadgames @leovoter @ipromote gang
MARKY STOP THE DOWNVOTE ABUSE STOP SELF VOTING WITH ALL THESE ALT ACCOUNTS
You could literally do nothing and be ahead by $270/day. They deal with less than $20/day of abuse yet they asked for $350/day.
so we need more decentralized flagging again
We need a lot of things, just people need to care.
THIS
yeah, so just abandoning anti-abuse and not more people joining anti-abuse efforts (not caring) wont bring us any further
I downvote more abuse than they do on a daily basis. There is a handful of other people doing some as well, but largely most people don't want to be involved or risk losing upvotes.
I also do not like Hivewatchers
I am always downvoting when I see something, since years
I have also already witnessed Hivewatchers condemning people for wrong
Still, if we just abandon (like all the comments under your post seems to want) - we still need some kind of alternative.
maybe revive HiveFlagRewards? redistribute the HBD that go to Hivewatchers currently to HiveFlagRewards ?
Do we though? We would have $270/day less sell pressure and about $20/day of abuse.
Yeah, you only care about the selling pressure, ofc
huh? I've been fighting abuse before it was cool. In fact, I still fight more abuse than they do 6 years later.
The reality is though, we are paying them $290/day (they originally got $350/day but with all the blowback they lowered it to $290/day so they still keep getting paid). They actually stop less than $20/day. If they did nothing, we would save like $270/day.
I know that Hivewatchers is more of a problem than a solution - that is nothing new since years
Still, we need SOME alternative, instead of just allowing wild west abuse (cuz noone except you and the old few faces care for anti-abuse)
with all the scammers currently whining against Hivewatchers and cheering for the abolishment
this platform will go to dust very fast
no matter that we have 290 $ less selling pressure
wild west abuser platform is worse than 290$ selling pressure
Any abuse is easily dealt with. The simple fact most abusers have no HP to take advantage of it. Hive Watchers spends most of their days cleaning up posts for a few pennies
It is easy - if organized
All the raging germans (who cry cuz their easy way of farming rewards is gone due to HW) even advocate for ABOLISHING DOWNVOTING IN GENERAL
SO GOOD LUCK WITH THEM
and your great Hive platform that goes to complete shit
Germans didnt care about us wanting to decentralize HW, they only care about their easy rewards.
Their circlejerks.
So they suddenly want to abolish HW
Ofc Downvoting in general
So they can have their "peace and freedom" again
Good luck !
I doubt Hive Watchers does much to deal with any of it anyway, they mostly go after people farming 4 cent rewards and new users. It takes me about 2 seconds to add them to my bot to deal with it.
I dont care what you doubt.
Thousandth time: I also do not like HW - since way too long
still, noone has a better idea in this great decentralized community
Have some other better idea - make the useful idiots germans join the anti-abuse effort
decentralize it
But if you all now just rage to abolish Hivewatchers, we will soon have the whole Steem Swamp here
And every scammer from the net
You guys need to imagine that we need to give good incentives, as a platform - not only for scammers and abusers
I find it funny you think they do anything now or will do anything in the future about it.
It is more about the outside look.
I find it funny how you think your marky bot will be a good sign for decentralized selfregulation.
How will the marky bot be different to HW?
I find it funny how everyone want to abolish HW and even just DOWNVOTING in general
And somultaneously do not want to do ANY effort for anti-abuse.
(Especially looking in the german direction)
All the best !
That's not applicable to Marky. He's a DV pro.
However, I don't think most DV's on the platform are flown on abusive posts and comments. Most of it is OPINION FLAGGING which is censorship of objectionable opinions - free speech. That's got to end, or it will end Hive. Instead of promoting flagging the bullies paying censors to police free speech should be defending it. I am not naming names, but there are less than 3 dozen possibilities with the stake to do this.
They do this, I believe, to retain control of the rewards pool and enrich themselves because if Hive became a good investment for outside capital they'd lose their command of the rewards pool, just as happened to Steem, and they are also profiting from Hive being a plutocracy. For these reasons they oppress free speech on Hive covertly, to keep it small enough they can dominate the rewards pool.
Someone that cares enough about money can find out who the likely culprits are. I know for a fact there are such quid pro quo arrangements, although I cannot name the culprits and only know of one of their minions for a fact, whom I will not name to protect my source.
Hive isn't dying. It's being killed for profit, and the killers have @'s.
First we abolish HW, then Downvoting in general - the decentralized self-regulating mechanism of this blockchain itself
you can team up with the germans
all the best !
You sir are a dumbass.
I dont care, abolish what you want - make your marky bot
abolish this platform
insult everyone who does not agree
that is how a decentralized community works for sure
hive probably already dead, so unimportant anyways
all the best
I still dont like you for downvoting my frens and me :D, but cudos for having the debate at least. Im getting cancer just scimming through parts of it.
I never once downvoted you, unless you are referring to an alt. You know full well your friends deserve it.
You reported me to leo.voter for not posting finance content in Leo, I wasnt aware. @alexvan tried to tell you but you insisted on me being fully awae of leo being a finance only community.
I checked the discord, but it is such an old and small thing Im not mad for it not being on your radar.
None of my friends ever deserve a downvote. @thegrandestine was doing interesting stuff until you flagged them off the platform, cause alts = evil...
Not sure who else we bumped heads over, I always confuse you and HW :3
Umm, ok. So I didn't flag you right? Just tried to keep the community on topic right?
The one with 30+ alts spamming images chain chatting with each alt? Wow, I'm such a jerk.
I have never been part of or supported Steam Cleaners or Hive Watchers. I always disagreed with their
Technically correct, but Im not sure if it isnt even worse, Herr Blockwart
The one who spend a few ten thousand $BEE to create dozens of Tokens and Diesel Pools. Im not sure if it all collapsed cause he was never serious from the start, you foiled his plans or too little people where interested in finding out about the deeper message of his game. I think it is somewhere between all three of them or maybe he will come back and conclude what he started.
Anyways the whole story shows me that you too downvote content you dont like and try to build justifications around it, just like HW.
To be fair the only time I encountered abuse, I called the authorities (HW) and they did their job. Im generally for a voluntary Scam/Abuse/indecent-content police, not the wild west method. Im just disappointed in the execution when you look into the details of the cases.
Im sure this line of work can cook your brains and as most veteran Hivians brains are fried hard already - I think you fare rather well all things considered.
So? That doesn't give him a license to spam garbage everywhere and farm rewards.
This is absolute garbage and a waste of space on the chain much less the Internet. There is no reason in the world this should be rewarded. This is a small sample of the thousands of occurrences I found his garbage.
Yes he did micro upvotes with his alts. The rewards he made from this are about 0.1% of what he put into the game.
It all boils down that you think his content is garbage. I would love to flag the things on hive that I think are garbage. I would downvote a post/comment of a whale every time he uses the word web3. Would be a fun world, but it is not the world we live in.
I honestly dont see how we can progress as a blockchain if we got some Boomers downvoting everything they think is garbage. Well maybe this is why hive seems stuck in 2018.
There is a difference between someone posting a real authentic comment with the word web3 and someone posting 1000 shitty automated comments that look like someone shit on the screen.
Boomer? LOL, alright bro we done. Go find someone else's shoulder to cry on.
HIVE IS DEAD
4 days ago in #life by tarazkp (84)$0.00
Reply 2
Sort: Trending
[-]bpcvoter2 (-5)(1) 2 days ago · Will be hidden due to low rating
Team marky @gogreenbuddy part of the @markymark @buildawhale @usainvote @apeminingclub @makerhacks @upmyvote @punkteam @rollingbones @theycallmemarky @memess @blockheadgames @leovoter @ipromote gang
MARKY STOP THE DOWNVOTE ABUSE STOP SELF VOTING WITH ALL THESE ALT ACCOUNTS
You have a point.
you are an coward blind follower
a fascist
projecting hivewatcher crap onto old anti-abuse members (while you know I've been against hivewatcher since it inception)
you successfully hunted me off the platform (I am stopping all the support and will leave, as you want it)
and then go into victimhood
and claim about censorship, while I have no power to censor you
-> you dont even know what censorship is
dumbass
That's the problem. You are advocating forcing people to act as you want them to. That is not freedom.
Freedom is allowing the market to give them something to care about. Allowing profiteering from curation rewards shows how this works, by creating incentives that have nothing to do with actual content to promote curation. When people gain upvotes for forthright speech they have a reason to care about forthright speech.
The problems of profiteering, circle jerks, spam, scams, and plagiarism, are all examples of how bad incentives are coded into Hive. A plutocracy creates incentives to seek money above all else. This deranges economic systems that we should want to float all the boats in the community, rather than rewarding pirates to take everything they can.
Hive needs to code incentives better, and eliminate incentives for malign action, like profiteering or pandering.
This is the solution to all the problems we face. We need to support free speech, and particularly criticism, because that is what makes free speech valuable to society. When we properly code incentives into Hive, we won't have to pay people to suppress bad actors, because people will defend Hive to defend their benefit from it.
People that gain nothing from Hive have no reason to defend it, so they don't. That is the problem.
This.
Eliminate the censorship ring that HW and Steemcleaners are paid to be. They're killing Hive daily.
Shut up
Stop spamming me with 1000000 comments
Most people didn't amass fortunes running bidbots. I dunno much about backdoor deals, but you and wolfie joined the oligarchy when the bidbots folded, so something was arranged off chain.
That being said, I have expressed my opinion to you without restraint, and you have not flagged me for it, which I respect. I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to support authors that are being permanently opinion flagged, and if you promoted free speech with your phat bags a lot fewer of the content creators that eventually give up fighting that financial censorship would give up.
I zealously promote free speech - and particularly OBJECTIONABLE speech - and hope you will too. Hive has not succeeded in competition with blatantly censored web2 platforms because it does not protect free speech, which you and other oligarchs could do. I can only conjecture that were Hive to become a profitable investment legacy financial players would buy up tokens and take power in the plutocratic governance model Hive employs, and you and your mates don't want to lose your pond you're the big fish in today.
Perhaps you could set me straight if I'm wrong.
However, whether you even deign to notice I exist or not, you could defend creators that are opinion flagged, like @por500bolos, who adamantly refuses to be flagged off the platform. Hive NEEDS forthright speech and CRITICISM to succeed.
Please defend and promote Hive by defending objectionable/critical free speech and countering opinion flags.
Thank you.
I am part of no oligarchy or anything I’m as much of a loner here as you can get.
As for flagging for opinion, that’s not my style. What others do is out of my hands.
Well, appearances certainly can be deceiving, and I pointed out all I can do is conjecture from what I see. I agree that what others do isn't in our hands, but as a coder you certainly can consider mechanisms to promote free speech and deprecate profiteering.
I don't think that's really your 'style' either, but thought it was worth an ask.
Hive has more free speech than anywhere, there is no guarantee you will be rewarded though but your content won't be removed.
Ah, C'mon Marky! Don't be so modest. You know very well what @valued-customer means when he correctly says that you are a member of the oligarchy in Hive. After all, you occupy the eighth position in that plutocratic hierarchy for quite some time.
Oh! and another thing mate. Also stop being so elusive by avoiding responding directly to what @valued-customer has suggested you should do. };)
You see? He's telling you that with your high HP, your obvious privileges/support and your coding skills, you could really make a difference if you wanted even if you're the opulent loner you pretend to be. Easy-peasy bro! ;o)
I know full well what he means, and it's completely false. Just because I have money doesn't mean I am part of anything. I have very much been a lone wolf here, I have tried to unfund a lot of the DHF proposals I feel are not in the best interest of Hive unsuccessfully. I have my own brain and I make my own decisions. You would be shocked if you realized how far I am from the circle of anything here. I occupy the eighth witness spot because I actually know what I am doing and I am always around when the shit hits the fan or we need to update, that can't be said for many of the witnesses.
What does my HP have anything to do with free speech? I am the most downvoted person here, you don't see me crying about free speech. Free speech does not mean free rewards.
Well, it wasn't entirely false. Did you achieve to read with total attention when he said:
"Most people didn't amass fortunes running bidbots. I dunno much about backdoor deals, but you and wolfie joined the oligarchy when the bidbots folded, so something was arranged off chain."
Yeah, I agree with that and I've been able to see and confirm it. However, I have also seen how you have not sought support for that lone crusade with the right people and the right communities that could help. Most likely so as not to lose the privileges and support that the current plutocracy gives you and has given you to this day.
No one is denying that you have your own brain and you make your own decisions. And it's exactly why @valued-customer bothered to suggest you that you might be able to help to combat and alleviate this other kind of obvious abuse that HW is doing if you only wanted to use your HP properly.
What is nothing more than mingle exclusively among the current plutocracy and keep having the support & votes of that rancid oligarchy with the greatest HP and voting power to put you and mantain you in that privileged eighth witness spot, right?
@valued-customer already explained it clearly to you at the beginning of this thread. Read it again if you didn't understand the relationship between your HP, your influence and voting power and what you could achieve in favor of free speech.
Ah, C'mon bro. You have been heavily downvoted only by @transisto and @newsflash because of your personal vendetta with him. And the rest, the few other downvotes anyone have given you, have been when you have behaved like a real asshole, spreading everywhere your own downvotes and those of @buildawhale arbitrarily and without any criteria that was supported by anyone else. That's why no one has seen you ever crying over anything related to free speech.
Sure thing.
How you got it, for one thing. But I'll say no more about that because I haven't seen you profiteer since the bidbots mostly ended, so I'm trying to move on, and as @por500bolos says, am suggesting you use your HP to defend free speech that is being suppressed with flags. You aren't flagged anything like @por500bolos is, because the flags flown on his content are a substantial percentage of his stake. Anyway, you're well able to withstand flags and keep the tokens rolling in, unlike him and others here.
Just imagine if those flags were reducing your income to pennies, or even nothing at all, like they do to many people being censored on Hive. You'd be gone in a flash. That's censorship in action on Hive. Hive being your golden egg-laying goose (if, as you've stated, you're not part of the censorship ring paying minions to suppress speech here) you'd be wise to defend free speech, because that is all that keeps Hive tokens worth anything at all, and is the only thing that could make the price of your tokens rise, by attracting users and investment.
I don't blame you for being financially prudent, but I don't think you're being prudent allowing people to be flagged off the platform, because the community being here is the only thing that gives your tokens value at all. If you've been paying attention, censorship is increasing, and will continue to until Hive becomes intolerable to censors. That will be the end of your pipeline to money on Hive, unless you build a community strong enough to defend it.
Finally, I don't know you personally, and certainly have mistaken some things about you. I have been surprised not to be flagged by you, which is why I've bothered to mention these things to you at all. It's probably too late to reverse the trend sinking Hive into oblivion, but I won't give up on it until I have to. All that will take is KYC to go online, however, and I am confident that is coming regardless of who wins the coming election. Musk will be all for it, and so will Zuckerborg. They'll benefit from it, but it will destroy Hive.
Dollars aren't going to survive it anymore than Hive tokens will. A vibrant community of Hive creators could be enough to keep that KYC from destroying Hive, the internet, and the USA, by politically opposing that KYC.
Of course, that would take a lot of work, and it's easier just to sell the tokens before that rolls out and invest in something that will retain value during war and famine. We'll see, won't we?
I beg to differ. I’ve been hit with $400 flags and all my posts and my curation was flagged for over a year. I couldn’t even vote how I chose without those users getting downvoted to zero as a result.
I am not the police of this platform, that falls to Hive Watchers as they are the ones being paid for it. If you haven’t noticed I stopped selectively voting well over a year ago and only vote burn posts now. For a better part of a year I was forced to limit my votes to the stabilizer posts. There are 1.6 million other accounts you can also hold accountable for this none of which I assume are performing to your expectations. It’s been clear to me for a while I have little to no say regardless of how much HP I have.
It would probably be more accurate to say that "policing" is something you - or others - say you don't want to do. But that's how the witnesses are understood. As what else? If your stake makes you a player in the upper ranks of policing, there's nothing you can do about being seen as such. Either you are a high-ranking witness or you are not. If you are, expectations are placed on you. You can reject them, but then you would also have to give up your position as a witness. Why don't you do it? If you are not interested in policing, you could give up your position as a Witness. What's stopping you?
First off, I have countered more abuse than anyone, it was my thing for many years here. If you don't know that already, then you probably don't know me very well.
Second, being a witness has nothing to do with countering abuse or anything but protecting the blockchain, producing blocks, and auditing and approving code. Everything else is a bonus.
Don't be so vain. If you have countered abuse, and you have done it well, and what you've done can be held up to your highest possible standards, congratulations to you.
Nothing to say against keeping the blockchain and features functioning.
Of course being a witness has something to do with countering abuse, you just described yourself as a long-time abuse fighter. And as I said, there's absolutely nothing you can do about the fact that the users here perceive you that way, whether you like it or not. Especially since the functioning of a technique inevitably collides with the soft factors of interaction, as there is no collision-free space.
It is merely a verbally convenient separation between function and consequence of function that you are making here.
If you're tired of it, I understand, but don't sell me slogans.
I'm not, I'm merely explaining something you apparently are not aware of.
I'm not selling you slogans, the simple fact is a witness is not a do everything you feel like them doing job. A witness has a very specific job, abuse fighting, patting you on the back, making you feel good, hanging out drinking beers, writing posts about flowers in their garden, are not part of that job. Doing more than just protecting the blockchain and producing blocks is great, but that's not what a witness is, they are not the police you call when someone misbehaves. This is a common misconception about what witnesses are.
Are you a technician? If so, you are someone who keeps the technology you are responsible for up and running with your expertise and the use of hardware and software.
You are paid to maintain a server that enables blockchain transactions. Okay.
So far, so good.
But what makes you a "witness"? What makes you a spokesperson for the blockchain?
Since when are technicians the politicians of a platform if they have not previously agreed that a certain interface should be established between them and the user community? Ergo, you are doing politics, because why am I voting for you or voting you out?
Should my judgement of your performance be based on the fact that you maintain a server that continues to facilitate transactions? Hardly.
Your performance is measured by the changes in the code. And since the code is inevitably related to issues such as the features that create an impact among the actors (all users of the blockchain), your issues are inevitably political in nature. So I'll say a third time: there's nothing you can do about it.
Otherwise, you could save yourself the whole Witness act, couldn't you? You could be a "technician" who keeps things running in the background, gets paid for it and that's it. But it's not like that, you all have to decide how the next hard fork will play out. So you're more than just technicians, you're politically active.
Logic dictates since you are politically active, you cannot resort to nothing. You have to take responsibility as a politician. If you don't want that, you cannot be a "witness". That's all I am saying.
P.S. So if you want to keep your crypto income, but you don't want to do politics anymore because you're either tired of your job or don't really understand it yourself, you're not entitled to that crypto income. Of course, if your view is diluted by the fact that there are enough opportunists to keep you in your position, you are the only person who either gives in to the seduction that you are legitimately elected or you think that your political fatigue is a reason to give up your income.
I'm the only witness fighting abuse. You are barking up the wrong tree. But I still disagree "fighting abuse" is in the witness job description, I bet if you ask around they will all agree. You can probably just realize that when you notice none of them do.
I am not barking but enjoying to talk to you. And wanting to have a reasonable dialogue.
Let me ask you again: since the code is inevitably related to issues such as the features that create an impact among the actors (all users of the blockchain), your issues are inevitably political in nature, you still disagree?
"Fighting abuse" doesn't need to be a job description since your work implies it. Is it correct that you want to protect your source of income? If it is, then taking measures against abuse or hostile attacks is the right approach. You agree? If you stop caring about your source of income, is it correct then to quit your job?
Yeah, they stopped doing that. And in disagreeing that this is their job, and as a consequence in stopping to do that, they and you need to lay down your witness position. And hand it over to more fresh folk. Why would that not be reasonable?
Can you answer my questions in a coherent way, please?
There is politics (which I never really got involved in myself) for getting votes. That isn't an excuse for lumping everything into the job description.
This is true for every stake holder, it has nothing to do with witnesses. In fact, every one who invests here needs to write posts daily, downvote abuse, upvote 10-100+ times/day, and potentially have a DHF proposal just to prevent depreciation of their relative stake.
How have I not bent over backwards answering your and other people's questions here.
Are you or are you not compensated for your witnessing activities? Do you run a server and do you participate in the voting process on planned code changes/hard forks, yes or no?
No, this does not apply to every stakeholder. I am not a witness, so I am not eligible to vote among you witnesses on planned code changes. That is different from a stakholding alone. I am in no way willing to give downvotes unless I officially want an office and would be compensated accordingly. Please read my comment here in the thread: https://hive.blog/hive-104500/@erh.germany/sdo8b1
There it becomes understandable how I view the political side on the issue of protecting the source of income.
Since I'm just a stakeholder who doesn't hold any official technical, policing, mediation/dispute resolution position, nor run a community, my hive activity is limited to exactly what I decide do with my valuable time and resources: engaging with a few of my readers and consuming a few other blogs.
If that's what you want too, not having an official position, why don't you limit yourself to your own valuable time. Only then your compensation as witness would be hard to justify, which would be logical to give up if you don't want to have any of the mentioned tasks.
I am not seeing you bending over backwards. And I really don't expect you doing such a thing. But through your words speaks a certain fatigue and annoyance. If compensation becomes such that it does not outweigh being tired of talking to people, stop talking to them, and stop being a witness, as a consequence of that.
Every stake holder is responsible for downvoting and protecting their investment. Rewards are a community consensus, not a witness decision. If you read the original white paper, it specifically mentions a crab bucket where community members are responsible for bad actors from getting out of hand. I recommend reading it.
I'm not going to go in circles about this though. You are free to think what you want.
Read that linked comment from my former response, in order to understand me - maybe afterwards you know what I am talking about and we can continue to debate. I long have understood you, and I don't agree so far.
No, "community members" aren't "responsible for bad actors" - what a bullshit piece of text; no offense against you. I've read it, be sure.
I think, however, that you lack somewhat of an understanding of politics.
I am very free in my thinking and do that anyway. LoL
If you don't want to go in circles, then don't. I freshly entered this conversation and would like it to be that way.
LOL Half a million of them are socks, and the rest have been flagged off the platform. All that's left are us, ~3k actual users as far as I can tell. Maybe 10k max if we count folks that stop by once a year. I was told years ago by a guy that he had 10k accounts all by himself. He's still here, so I bet he's got more like 100k today.
I confess I considered your bottery anathema and for that reason utterly ignored you for years. Only after we interacted when I vehemently advocated you stop flagging @joepublic and I was astonished not only to not be flagged for doing it, but you actually did stop, did my misconceptions about you slowly begin to eat away at my hubris. Then, despite my stubborn pigheadedness, against my will, suspicion that I did not know everything about you I needed to know and had misjudged you began to grow until I eventually had to concede I was the asshole. Quietly, to myself.
Being sharply corrected by your failure to be the asshole I thought you to be, I have very gradually realized you are ordinary people, and actually have principles. For so crushing my conceit I owe you a debt of gratitude.
Don't tell anyone, but I vote your witness now, and have for some time.
You take on a lot of that burden because of your principles, however, and I have seen you relent on opinion flagging in the above mentioned matter, as well as being flagged yourself. The old aphorism that free speech is fine until you shout fire in a theater has this caveat: it's a crime not to warn people when the theater is afire. Free speech is literally a matter of life and death.
Hive has lost ~1M users since we started here (I also got here in 2017). Not only does that deprecate your stake, but also might threaten your life and freedom. This world needs free speech so we can shout fire when the theater is burning, and tens of millions of people have already died because of censorship of factual medical information that convinced them to submit to experimental medical tests of devices that occasionally have lethal side effects. I am certain sure that censorship's going to get worse, as will the harms from it, unless we do something about it.
Hive can do something about censorship, but we have to support folks that are speaking out, people that dissent, even if they're wrong, because without criticism and argument we can't learn we are wrong - as I learned I was about you. I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to @por500bolos and several other creators because censorship must be opposed and dissent supported or worse things than have already happened will happen. We need all the content creators we can get, and he's being deliberately driven from the platform maliciously.
I don't want any Hive Police, and I want HW ended. I want Hive to police Hive, for better or worse. You are more aware than most the community came together to flag bidbots into the grave, so you know the community can do the flagging that needs doing, with proper incentives and code that enables it. You also have been flagged harder than anyone I know, so you know what it takes to persevere against injustice, as does @por500bolos. You have substantial stake to upvote unjustly flagged creators with, to counter flags and make them whole. You are highly respected on Hive, #8 of the witnesses.
You have stuck with Hive despite being flagged for a year, so you have grit and believe in the platform. You have reach here I can never dream of, and can get more folks to back us up. I believe you can help make opinion flagging end - if you actually agree that it is wrong. My understanding of your statements here is that you do. I know there's a lot of people here on Hive that will back you up if you make a move to champion free speech.
I act to defend creators against censorship, but I can't do it alone (LOL I can hardly do anything at all). I don't want you to do that against your better judgement, or unwillingly. I want you to do it to defend your property, your rights, and your life, because censorship is a threat to all of them, and everyone else, too. We all need free speech. I urge you to revive @freezepeach, with a delegation, or talking to @r0nd0n to see what it would take, to help Hive become what it should be: freedom from fear of censorship for good people that speak the truth as best they know it. You can stand behind that cause and never regret it.
Hive is more censored than Fakebook or Twatter. Canada censored honking trucks by seizing the bank accounts of people donating to the truckers. Financial suppression of speech is censorship. The fact the content isn't removed doesn't mean it hasn't been censored. The fact the truckers weren't executed by cops on the side of the road for honking doesn't mean they weren't censored.
Opinion flagging is censorship by every authoritative definition of censorship. It's short of double tapping to the back of the head, but the utter elimination of information isn't the definition of censorship. Suppression of speech is the definition of censorship, and that's why flags work to eliminate spam, scams, and plagiarism, because it suppresses that kind of intolerable speech. There are worse forms of censorship, as I've mentioned above, but that doesn't mean that financial suppression of speech should be tolerated on Hive.
Hive's one value is it's potential to secure free speech, and the constant financial suppression of forthright speech deprecates Hive, and prevents it from being more useful than Fakebook and Twatter, which is why society keeps using them and isn't using Hive.
Frankly, despite I know damn well I am right, I don't think it matters much anymore. Hive has squandered it's potential to create a platform that secured free speech and replaced Big Social Media by allowing opinion flagging to drive away it's users, and let scammers dominate the rewards pool, as you are well aware. Shortly Hive is going to discover what Monero has recently learned, and more, because KYC is going to be required to use the internet, and that will be the end of Hive, at least for me.
After that, all you'll have is your dollars you extracted from Hive, and the USG is going to lose it's reserve currency status, which will make dollars worthless as Turkish Lira. Hope you've invested in Renminbi, or gold, which may still have value for a while after dollars collapse. If folks had properly valued free speech perhaps Hive wouldn't be facing it's destruction, because we'd have a community of many millions that would be a political force to reckon with and an existentially valuable resource - free speech - that they'd defend by defending Hive from destruction by KYC that is surely coming, now that we have squandered our community for a few dollars that will soon be just as worthless as Weimar Deutschmarks.
I’m not going to go back and forth on this for the next week. With Canada their money was stolen, on Hive this can never happen as no one can take anything from your wallet. Post rewards are not yours until the community has decided what it is worth at the end of 7 days.
I’ll agree the voting is not always fair and that’s the same with everything in life. Sometimes it just sucks and there certainly are favorites.
There is no way Hive is more censored than Facebook, I call bullshit.
I haven’t really extracted dollars from Hive. I’ve pretty much only held it over the almost seven years of being here and it is not my biggest bag by a long shot. I am primarily a BTC holder. Any fiat I have is mostly in stocks. I am positioned in such way inflation has little impact on me. In fact my Hive is the most sensitive to inflation due to its stagnant performance.
That being said, I am not an advocate of opinion flagging and downvotes are way over exaggerated as they are extremely rare.
I deeply appreciate your substantive reply. I don't think you know how much.
Neither is your money in your bank account yours. That's how Canada could tell the banks to take it. If you haven't read your bank's TOS carefully to the last detail, you should. Once you deposit your funds in the bank it is their money, and all you have is a promise that they'll pay you back.
Until they don't because they don't have it, because interest rates rose after the bank spent the money on bonds and is now underwater. Every bank in America is currently insolvent. The Fed is almost $1T upside down. The FDIC can't do shit about that level of bankruptcy, and guess what happens to dollars if the USG prints enough to cover it? Maybe the USG will just borrow the money from the bankrupt banks to cover their losses. That'll fix it. /s
Flags are taxes, and taxation is theft, as I've pointed out elsewhere.
As for stonks, you don't own any stonks either. The DTCC (Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation) actually has the stonks you bought. You have a receipt.
(my bold for emphasis)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_%26_Clearing_Corporation
IOW, they have the stonks you think you bought, and what they give you is a promise they'll take good care of your stonks, let you have the dividends, and proceeds if you sell them (or sell the receipts, as it were). That bullshit about 'exchange'? The stonks never leave their custody. They just make notations in their files as to whom they'll be stealing the stonks from if they don't actually pay you. Because they have them, and you don't. They do add this on that page:
Let me quote Klaus Schwab:
Maybe you can get your stocks if you request them, though, and then you'll actually have them instead of a receipt. Might wanna get right on that, because this system was arranged by big banks, that are all insolvent, which I bet that ~$87T will cure just fine.
I know these things because they took my property. I want you to know them before they take your property like they took mine, so maybe you can do something about it before they do. I am well aware it's not fair, because I literally walked away from everything I had ever owned, my free and clear acreage and 4 bd house, my rental property, my trucks, tools, 4 bay shop, 5 bank accounts, and several brokerage accounts, and my dogs (whom I miss most of all, because they actually loved me) in borrowed socks, because I didn't own any socks. Not even one sock. All I got in return was bad credit, a bad back, and worse teeth. Maybe just is a better word than fair, actually.
Have a look at @por500bolos's account. Have a look at @baah's account. Have a look at @logiczombie's account. I bet you'll be able to count over 1000 flags just on those three accounts. @baah is a troll, but he's also a sincere and prolific poster of facts - or he was before he recently vanished. @logiczombie and @por500bolos are critical commentators on various topics, including Hive, or they were before @logiczombie quit posting (and have a look at my account, instead of taking my word that I don't use tokens as money, so don't care about this because of my personal finances. I invest in goodwill because it can't be taxed, stolen, or rot. It only goes away when someone dies, and I'm old). @por500bolos is still here.
There are hundreds and hundreds more examples since 2017. We've lost ~1M accounts since then, and the vast majority of those accounts were flagged unfairly unjustly and ragequit. It's probable that many of them did something wrong, plagiarized, or posted images without attribution, or comment spammed, or said something mean. Maybe some of them would be a net loss and we're better off without them (although they probably have friends they would have marketed Hive to). But we had a chance to have a vibrant community and blew it by letting them be flagged off the platform.
I sincerely recommend you either strive to enable Hive to be a robust enough platform to effectively resist destruction by KYC (which the USG is going to require, sooner than later, to save the children, or terrorists, or smth), or exchange your tokens for something that will retain value when Hive dies from KYC without such robust community.
Please note that I used the word recommend. I'm not telling you what to do. I just don't think there are any other courses of action with potential to succeed, and am sharing information in support of my recommendations. Bail-in's can take all your money in the bank. Every bank in America is underwater because they invested in bonds and interest rates went up, turning their assets into liabilities, and your TOS with the bank explains the money you deposit in the bank is their money now. History is replete with examples of people not getting their money from banks.
You don't actually own any stonks. The DTCC has all the stonks you think you own, and you have their promise to pay. You don't have to take my word for it. DYOR, while you still can extract your assets from the clutches of the thieves that have them in hand (and I know for a fact they're thieves and are not trustworthy). Invest in assets you actually own, can hold in your own hands, and defend from thieves. Or better yet, communities of people you can depend on.
If Hive can't exert nominal political power to prevent the USG from requiring KYC to use the internet, Hive will die. Big Social Media is basically the CIA and is all for KYC (and killing Hive). I don't see any way to prevent that from happening except to get a lot of users fast. In fact, I think it's too late. I'd love for you to prove me wrong about that.
But, maybe hurry, before they take it all from you, like they did me. I know why justice matters, even if it's just a DV. When you stand for justice, you have a sound foundation of principle you can count on to keep you from a slippery slope. Once you start sliding down that slope it's hard to stop, and we're going like 60.
Define 'removed'. I'm aware of posts and comments that have become unavailable on Hive, at least through any mechanism I am able to deploy. My posts aren't so objectionable as to merit such removal/disappearance, though. Flagging isn't just 'not rewarding' content. Flags are taxes, which is theft. No one guarantees Toyota will sell any trucks. But Toyota sells a lot of trucks in America, and make good money doing so, just like a popular creator getting a lot of upvotes. BYD, the Chinese electric automaker, however, isn't going to be able to sell it's cars in America, because the USG is going to downvote them and eliminate the upvotes purchasers of their vehicles would be giving them.
Censorship doesn't have to remove the content, when it can just remove the creator with flags. Flags aren't no vote, aren't not rewarding content. They're taxes that take away what others have given. And, of course, taxation is theft.
Rewards are not yours until they are in your wallet. The community decides the value of content during the seven days. This is how Hive works. It certainly isn’t always fair but it is hardly my fault.
¿The community decides? ¿What community?
Then, how would you call what a single MoFo in Hive can do against "the community" through a simple whimsical downvote?
Wouldn't you call it a blatant theft from both the authors and their content curators of the potential money they could have made if this MoFo had not acted in the same way that the government of Canada did with its citizens sympathetic to the truckers' cause?
The rewards money and payouts may well not be yours until after seven days. But if suddenly a big SoB comes on the sixth day or before to prevent it reach your wallet and take them away from you, isn't this a damn robbery?
Paychecks aren't ours until they're taxed either, eh? I once claimed 9 Eskimo wives on my W-4 (the form you fill out when starting a job so the employer knows what to withhold from your pay for taxes) so that the USG took nothing from my paychecks. Really pissed off my employer, too. I knew I wouldn't have a tax liability at the end of the year, so didn't want the USG to hold my money for me until then.
I needed my money. It was my money and I wanted it then. However, all this dodges the point, that taxation takes our money before we get it, just like flags on Hive. More importantly, taxation is theft. Flags are theft. They're the same.
I am not blaming you at all for other people's flags.
However, flags are taxes, as demonstrated by the Toyota analogy. If you like the product you buy it. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. Flags tax the purchases that have been made of the content creators have been upvoted on, just like taxes on Toyota sales.
Taxation is theft. I'm agin' it. It is necessary to flag spam, scams, and plagiarism, because those things are existential threats to Hive, so in those cases they are necessary and justified by the fact that they are countering criminal predation on society.
It's not theft if you're stealing your shit back.
There's more than mere pandering at stake. People get flagged into oblivion. Opinion flags are the stench of death on Hive that permeates the entire cryptosphere. Flags should be limited to actual abuse, not objectionable opinions. If we don't defend objectionable speech we will have only virtue signaling - and that doesn't merit any defense whatsoever.
And that is why I like you so much.
Well, I am certainly objectionable.
Thanks!
HAHAHA! Yeah you’ve got a rad style my dude, nothing wrong with objectionable…at least that’s an ethos 🤣
Maybe the code leaving potential abuse fighters vulnerable to opinion flags is the actual problem. People getting flagged for criticizing whales have a damn good reason not to criticize whales.
The code is the problem, because it allows opinion flagging. Not until the oligarchy cut a deal with Marky and Wolfie did the bidbots end (mostly), and that reveals the real problem is plutocracy, not whether people care. People flagged into penury can't afford to care.
People that are flagged for their forthright speech here are given nothing to care about. When fakebook and twatter are BETTER THAN HIVE for speaking objectionable opinions on, Hive has failed miserably to promote free speech.
Free speech is infinitely more valuable than money. Push it up. Pushing spam, scams, and plagiarism down isn't all we need to do. We need criticism, even if it's criticizing us, because that's how we can learn how to be better than we have been. Even if it's wrong, it isn't spam, scams, or plagiarism and deserves protection.
People care when they have a reason to care. If all they can get for posting is $.30, why should they care? Give forthright speech a reason to care.
It's not exactly free at $350/day, though, is it?
Since 2017, when I joined the community, more than 1M accounts have joined and began posting and then been flagged off the platform. HW was not useful against the bidbots, but the community itself got rid of them when enabled to do so by tweaking DV code. Rather than fund an institution that can be - and obviously has been - corrupted to profit from attacking that ~1M users and censoring their speech on Hive, the community itself is competent to protect itself when availed the tools, as the demise of bidbots, that threatened to utterly overwhelm the platform at one point, reveals.
HW has become a tool of oppression, of censorship profiteering, and has proven the mechanism of funding is incapable of withstanding corruption and abuse. You cannot call the people of HW 'voluntary' when they're getting $350/day, which would be better spent to oppose censorship than cause it.
It is not factually correct to say the 'big community' does not care for itself. The reduction of the influence of the bidbots has proved the community does care for itself when armed to do so. The problem is that venal profiteers rise to power in a plutocracy, and Hive is a pure plutocracy in which several of the most egregious bidbotters have become entrenched in the oligarchy of top witnesses.
The solution is to fund @freezepeach and allow spam, scams, and plagiarists to be flagged by the community that has demonstrated it's willingness to do so when availed the tools in the code to do so. $350/day would go a long ways to ending opinion flagging that has cost us >1M users already, and created a stench of outrage against that injudicial censorship in the cryptosphere. That can be reversed, and free speech empowered, by coding proper tools for the community to protect itself, and funding @freezepeach to oppose opinion flagging - or Hive is doomed by it's prior (and present) flaggotry, because that reeking stench of censorship will not wash off.
I don't think Hive is doomed, because even the worst stench will wash away when time and the application of cleansing is applied, and people are suffering the censorship across the social mediascape more than ever. HW is the reason people keep trying to use web2 platforms, instead of flocking to Hive to be rewarded for speaking forthrightly. Social media has become the largest financial sector of the IRL markets in the world. Hive has been extremely poorly executed to perform so dismally in a market so obviously profitable and malevolently censored. We have a rhetorical foundation to directly reward creators for their forthright content that clearly has the ability to be extremely financially rewarding if executed properly, but instead has performed worse than the most oppressive Big Social platforms. It has performed worse than them by BEING worse than them for creators, and HW opinion flagging is what is worse.
Fund @freezepeach instead of HW, and allow the community to handle it's business censoring spam, scams, and plagiarism, as it has clearly proved it is capable of doing when it suppressed the bidbots. While there are still at least one bidbot in operation today, it is no longer a threat to the whole community, while HW has shown to be worse, and more insidious threat by crushing forthright speakers and causing them to abandon the platform. HW is so malignant that Fakebook and Twatter are better prospects, and that is a horrible fact of the misapplication of funds and code on Hive today.
you quote me talking about VOLUNTARY PEOPLE
NOT Hivewatchers
and then talk about the money Hivewatchers gets..
I am also much for funding @freezepeach
HW claims to be voluntary, just as you do, and just as Marky does.
I dunno who is in HW other than Guilty, and I am baffled why Guilty tolerates the opinion flagging HW executes. There must be a reason, but I am not going to speculate about his specific motivations, because I can't think of any potentially good ones and I don't want to falsely accuse anyone of bad actions.
There are scammers on social media platforms, and censorship is necessary to eliminate their profit motive. Censorship also works on spammers, and plagiarists. It also crushes ordinary people that post on Hive and don't do spam, scams, or plagiarism. DV's are censorship. That's why they work.
The censorship mechanism on Hive should not be applicable to opinions.
As for funding @freezepeach, @r0nd0n quit actively running it, and I know he is a busy and hardworking guy, so I can't fault him for it. He did the best he could for very little reward, and I admire him very much. However, @freezepeach isn't doing anything anymore, so I donate 1/4 of my author rewards to creators that are being censored for no good reason. You could do that too. If you don't know anyone that is being flagged without ceasing for their original content, I can give you a list. It evolves because most people just can't stay on it and quit posting to earn flags. The last creator that fell off that list is @baah, who reamed me a new one more often than he agreed with me, and I have no idea why he quit posting because I don't think he likes me very much and he doesn't keep me apprised of his reasons for doing things. But there are still folks posting against the constant pressure of censorship flags on every post and comment they make, and if just a few of us kicked them down 5% of our author rewards - which can't be flagged away - I think we could end the censorship ring that is suppressing free speech on Hive.
The censors do it for money, so they don't want to spend much censoring because that cuts into their profits. I am clearly not enough financial power to stop them, so more folks are necessary for the opposition to their opinion flagging to be successful. Regardless, I will continue to do it on principle, because that matters a whole lot more to me than a couple HBD.
Let me know if you want a list of folks that are being censored and should be supported with a cut of author rewards that can't be flagged away.
after you defending fascists that want to hunt me out of my country
and talking shit about me
I dont give a flying fuck
stuff it up ur ass
goodbye
I can understand that @baah did not like you
Yet I supported him because he posted factual information. That's the difference between you and him. While he ranted from time to time, he also produced valuable content.
Yeah, you lying piece of shit, that's why you upvoted me and wrote all those comments
to now lie and tell me the opposite
You fascist have achieved what you want: I will leave
you projecting piece of shit do not even talk with or against me
you talk about random stuff that has nothing to do with me
so shut the fuck up and leave me alone
you fucking idiots do not get that defending oneself if you do not leave others alone is the most fundamental right everyone has
stupid
I had 20 notifications this morning and 14 of them were of your rants pleading to be left alone. Maybe take your own advice?
Yeah, as if I had not 10 comments of your weird nonsense projections about Hivewatchers that HAS ZERO TO DO WITH ME
You brainless weird being
HERE HERE