RE: [ENG/DEU] Anniversary! CryptoCompany Is 3 Years Old Today! Thank You! You Made It Possible! Let's Rock On!
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Are you seriously selling votes for token burns?
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You are viewing a single comment's thread:
Are you seriously selling votes for token burns?
[@PowerPaul:] Hey @acidyo. Yes, I run this voting service in coordination with @hivewatchers (by which I mean that I discussed the voter and how it works with them, made a few adjustments before launch, etc.)
I heard about your actual campaign related to @freecompliments, @brofund, @steembasicincome, @neoxian, @helios.token ...
So I assume your question means that you have some problems with CryptoCompany's service, right?
In general, it is important to me to create valuable and also legitimate offers for the community - hence the coordination with Hivewatchers.
What is your concern and how do you think the service should be adjusted?
(P.S.: if you prefer a PM, because your doings [for sure you can assume that all the projects you attack right now are doing a coordinated research] don't like to be revealed in public, I would be available via Discord PM too. I am "powerpaul" there too.)
You are welcome for a calm talk about! But let's try to don't waste each others time - I see the value in your time and don't like to waste it, like my time has a value too.
Greetings & Hive a great day!
Thanks for not looking to waste time, appreciate that a lot especially after some recent events.
My concern is that your project mainly votes for accounts burning your project's token in exchange for a vote thus unfairly affecting others who may be deserving of votes in different forms that hive's curation is meant to work in - effort, quality, consumption, networking, etc.
This form is considered selling votes, your project benefits from the curation methods in more ways than just having people post about your project and you receiving 50% of the rewards in curation but also taking some value from hive to prop up supply scarcity of your token through curation. Buying profitable votes (I didn't check if they are profitable) means easy guaranteed returns for authors, just because they're not posting abuse that @hivewatchers gets involved in and may get them blacklisted from them and yourself doesn't mean the votes are fairly earned if they have to pay for them with the layer 2 token.
If everyone launched such schemes we'd be taking more and more value away from curation and artificially propping up layer 2 token evaluations at the cost of hive and proof of brain. If others don't launch such schemes you're unfairly earning more than them because of these programs of voting for accounts who burn your token. Hive doesn't benefit from this activity but it's hive curation you're utilizing to make it work.
I assume that I have understood the content of your statement.
So that we are talking about the same things and there are no misunderstandings, let me confirm and deny a few things.
Yes, the service exchanges votes for CCD tokens.
I agree with you that “effort, quality, consumption, networking, etc.” should be a requirement. The rules for using the service are designed accordingly - and I regularly reject votes (or requests for them) if the orders/postings do not meet these requirements. I have even reported accounts to HiveWatchers on several occasions if I suspect scam or abuse behind the vote-orderers, or I actively participate in detecting them by providing information or expressing suspicions, for example. So we are both pulling in the same direction.
I don't know if you have read the rules on the page https://cryptocompany.ceo/voter.php in the “Restrictions” tab. If not, that's okay, there's a lot of information on the page. Let me show you the rules again here as a screenshot.
I am reluctant to disagree strongly, but:
The HP behind CryptoCompany are not only used for votes within the requested service. I generally vote for nice or supportable content. So I can certainly address your concerns and warn you: “Everything is in the green zone”.
I see it differently. Quite the opposite, in fact, if we're talking about regulated services that act in good faith. Yes, there are projects that attribute value to every (own) secondary account - I don't want to name names right now so as not to discredit anyone.
So it seems to me, if we clear up any misunderstandings, that we have quite similar views; I'm glad about that!
Can I answer any further questions or help you in any way?
In every case enjoy your day & make the best out of it!
(Oh, I forgot at the last answer... Sorry about...:)
lolztoken.com
A sham-rock.
Credit: reddit
@acidyo, I sent you an $LOLZ on behalf of cryptocompany
(1/10)
Why can't you just curate people without the token burn mechanism in between? Do you think other projects should actively do the same as well? Why do you feel the need to add this utility to the token when there's plenty of other reasons one would want to curate certain users involved in a community or a project?
If tokens were given out for free it'd be one thing, but if you have to delegate or buy the tokens to then burn them to be considered for a votes it's just selective vote buying in the end anyway that benefits your project extra compared to another project which also has tokens but doesn't encourage people to burn the tokens in order to receive hive upvotes.
This does feel like an evolved version of vote selling. As @acidyo pointed out having a token to buy just changes the scheme but it's still selling votes for tokens.. burned or not
[@PowerPaul:] Hey @solominer. You can win these tokens too, you don't need to buy them. If you like to invest the time you can read the answer I gave acidyo. But because can be what you pointed out: yes, some users buy the token to exchange them.
Hive a great day!
Have we stopped to consider why vote selling is wrong?
I have yet to hear any good explanation that would not apply two-fold to self-voting in excess. I consider 'in excess' to be anything more than 5-10% of total deliverable vote value from the stake. Others may have their own threshold.
Rather than 'this mechanism is always wrong' we should judge each case by their overall impact on Hive.
In this case, burning tokens that were won from live-streaming to get a vote is no different than asking guests on the livestream to share their posts in the livestream chatting and dropping votes on them right then. Tokenized is in fact better, because it removes the time pressure and allows the user to evaluate post quality more effectively.
So there is an intermediate step of having the ability to trade the tokens and let somebody else get the vote. You could take the same value, buy HP, and self-vote. You could take that same value, pay for leased delegation, and then self-vote.
At the end of the day, some behaviors support small hivers, encourage them to grow their accounts and build their stake, and benefit Hive as a whole. Some behaviors enrich whales and allow them to bury their profiteering behind posts that nobody reads, in comments that nobody dares downvote. Which is better for Hive's growth and adoption?
[@PowerPaul:] Dear @acidyo, I don't want to sound rude, but I thought we don't want to waste each others time. I say this because some answers you are looking for are pretty obvious. Fair enough, some answers aren't obvious for users who aren't included in the CCCEO community.
I will answer you all of your questions and some included aspects now, but please try to don't waste our time - as you wish by yourself. This is not meant because your questions, but mainly look how much I need to answer you. It's not my strength to wirte short things.
I don't need to answer them, but I like to, because maybe you can gain a better insight about CCCEO. You are welcome!
You don't have to. You can win them by gaming too. For example within the last two Bro Bang seasons (where I gave away CCD token in worth far over 1000 HIVE + LGN token, maybe roundabout 500 HIVE). For example. This game is far away from lucrative for CCCEO (I will come back to this point later), but I do it because I love to support our (mostly) lovely blockchain.
Or you can receive our tokens when you win in several contests from other Hivians or communities, like photo contest, where the best photo/content wins. You not only can win votes there, but CCD too. So CCCEO curates good content beside "the possibility to exchange votes".
I do as I explained you in one example. More needed? Do we need to take the time to write and read? I honor your tie and my time too. So... I could call others. Why I have the voting service as addition? Because I need use cases for the token.
I think every Hivian should create good content & possibilities which invite to interact with our chain and reward it, yes. I think this is what we need. Engagement & reasons to be here instead of leaving. Do you agree on that? I assume so. Glad again.
First part of the question: additional use case for the CCD token, to support the price stability of the CCD token. Second part: I do, as I explained above.
I wish that every project will find legit ways to be sustainable and can manage server costs, development, management and so on. When part of this is token burning, I am okay with that. It is part of our versatile ecosystem in my view. In my case/project I can say it is cool when people can exchange (bought at a good price, won, earned, whatever) CCD for example in the voting service.
I hope I answered every question. Did I?
Lastly I want to close with a topic. As you know, developing and maintaining projects aren't easy or always cheap. In the CCCEO case I have spent all my private money into the first 2,5 Years of developing all this stuff - some things like the main game are still in the pipeline and don't will be able to be financed from a few CCD token sales. But why I do that? Because our chain has a slogan which in I believe. "Join the revolution" isn't it? And who has the responsibility for that?
You, I, we. We all. I know countless projects where pull on the same rope to make our chain a revolutionary place, attract users, provide possibilities. (For example I know that there are people where don't have to starve, because Hivians develop projects with a win-win-win component.) Not only this, but especially this, is my reason why I try to create a ecosystem where everybody can grow in. I could do another job where I earn money, instead of working me broke or physical ill. Many Hivians could do so.
I believe in you that you try the same. There are voices which mean that you prefer to serve your own account network with value (people talk about 270 USD self-votes per day) - I don't believe that and I assume it is false. But for sure you can agree that there are some circles/networks of "older" accounts/users (which I don't like to call "Hivians") (and their own side accounts) which abuse our blockchain and give a foo about projects which try to create an environment for everybody. So we both know where some real problems on our blockchain are. Or do you have other experiences?
So let me ask you two question, please: Do you think we as (self-rated) good Hivians should do something against the real exclusion and circle-fooing? Or should we fight against projects, created by love and dedication? Maybe some projects don't do everything right to everyones will, but yes, that's normal in a big society as we are as Hivians. But the projects I know try to do so and would be happy about constructive criticism, a helping hand and support. But sadly I know projects too, where left the chain, because some people prefer to destroy instead of talking. And because of this it makes me glad that you are not one of these - because we obviously talk about how to improve things.
And because I like constructive criticism: Do you have an idea how to keep CCCEO alive with better models? (Yes, I am developing a few other things within CCCEO too, but things need time. Lastly the goal is a whole "universe" of services and games. And the voter is one part which supports that in this time. But maybe you have far better ideas.) I would look forward for support from a Hivian!
Acidyo, I hope it doesn't felt like that I stepped on your feet with some answers or questions. Lastly I would look forward if we all together build a better blockchain.
And if you like, I am looking forward for constructive ideas!
(I have to do other work at my time-related secondary job today and tomorrow too, to be able to finance my time here. So don't take it for bad if I shouldn't be able to answer you today again. But I assume latest on Saturday I will find the time.)
See you later & Hive a great weekend! As I always say: "Make the best out of it!"
[EDIT: typos]
Thank you! I was interested in reading your answer.
!LOLZ
!MEME
Credit: atheistrepublic
Earn Crypto for your Memes @ HiveMe.me!
[@PowerPaul:] You are welcome! !LUV
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