Valueplan Strategy
Valueplan has posted seeking comment from the Hive userbase. This is the comment I left there.
"To create the 2025 general marketing strategy for Hive we need to outline our main goals. Our current goals are:
"Increase listings, integrations and partnerships
"Inspire investment in HIVE and HBD and increase their utility
"Onboarding and retention of long-term community members"
Since I began using Hive's progenitor in May 2017 I have observed as more than a million people undertook the onboarding process and learning curve to join the community and contribute posts and comments to our library of content. I have watched them leave too, as we have ejected them. That library and satisfied users is all the marketing program Hive needs. The market will not be fooled by tricks or gimmicks without content of interest presented by a satisfied userbase. The vast majority of reasonable people lost any respect and confidence in the platform when bidbots were allowed to operate, and rightly so. The primacy of greed, of grubby, filthy lucre being the sole purpose of every act, of every aspect of the code, could hardly have been better demonstrated.
During this same period social media has risen to become the largest sector of the global financial market, demonstrating that people face existential threats they seek means to secure themselves, their communities, and property from that mere pecuniary interest is immaterial to. Hive's demonstrable maximization of financial interest has prevented it's utility to that market, and is why it has the worst retention of users in the social media market.
Hive's underlying offer to the market of a social media platform that resists censorship and enables people to earn from their posts through micropayments from their audience, instead of the advertising model of web2 social media platforms that remunerate only the most popular creators, has not failed to attract users, but it has failed to retain them because it did not live up to it's offer. The narrative wasn't left to the creators, the people discussing the things that matter to them, but has been managed for the purposes of the majority owners of the platform, which is and has been ~3 dozen whales.
The market revealed that onboarding was not the problem. The UI was not the problem. The platform failed to deliver meaningful censorship resistance. It failed to deliver even modest earnings to the vast majority of those users. After overcoming onboarding and UI issues these users began to post and comment, and then encountered unrestrained taxation of their author rewards as the whales' minions used their ninjamined stakes to flag them continually, zeroing their rewards serially until they left. The bidbots were almost worse than the flaggots at destroying Hive's reputation and userbase, but the two together rightly caused respect and confidence in the platform to evaporate.
Almost every user that joined the platform quit because the dynamic offered was not what was actually delivered. Rather than provide a list of the folks that were flagged off the platform, let's do the opposite: make a list of folks that have joined and stayed, particularly those with substantial audiences, so called 'influencers'. The number that came and tried to make a go of it shows that the onboarding process and the UI didn't prevent them from posting. They were driven off after they came. Retention is basically zero.
Zero.
It doesn't matter that any of us might disagree with any or all of their views or how popular they were. Any and all of these views are part of the conversations and ferment of the free speech market which Hive is dependent on serving, and only insofar as Hive allows the market to self regulate can Hive prosper as the platform on which that occurs. Hive has not allowed that market to operate, and Hive does not prosper. There are two options the market has regarding a product: to buy the product or not to buy the product. But that is pure free market capitalism, and the platform can allow producers to prosper or tax their production intolerably. Hive hasn't just favored some producers over others. It has suppressed all of them equally with unrestrained taxation.
As Hive taxed their income here to prevent them earning rewards, it cut it's own throat. Many of them continue to thrive on other platforms, which reveals that Hive is less able than those platforms at enabling free speech to earn it's creators income. Hive will continue to be outperformed by other platforms that do not financially oppress and censor free speech as much as Hive does. Hive has burned through the market of early adopters, and those that have been driven off tell people what happened. That is Hive's marketing program in operation. As long as new people onboarded, their investments could be absorbed, but now that very few make the attempt that income has dried up, leaving only the cash on hand - the DHF - left for the whales to extract.
As long as unrestrained taxation continues - and it continues to this day - Hive will drive users away, and it's userbase will continue to shrink. Accordingly, Valueplan is not surmounting the one challenge that prevents Hive from growing and increasing the value of it's token, which is retention of users. The power to elect witnesses governs Hive, and has since the advent of it's progenitor. ~3 dozen accounts today retain the majority of stake in Hive, and thus completely control governance. Distribution of Hive has not decentralized and this maintains governance centralized in those ~3 dozen accounts.
What Valueplan could do is to curate posts from people that post on Hive to encourage them to continue posting on Hive, with the strictest mechanisms to exclude bots and socks from such curation. It could completely counter every DV that isn't cast on spam or a scam. Finally, it could DV votebots and similar scams that continue to operate on Hive. ~3 dozen whales (or some subset) fund spaminator, hw, and etc. to DV users and drive them away. Censorship of the free speech published on Hive has nothing to do with spam or scams, but ensures continued centralization of governance by preventing distribution. I expect them to continue to secure the whales' sole and exclusive power to govern Hive until the last satoshi of value has been wrung from it, the witnesses give up, and it ceases to exist.
Every lame argument that DV's aren't censorship, aren't taxation, and don't matter can be trotted out as they have been for the last 7 years to no avail. If Hive surmounts the user retention issue, every other goal of Valueplan is either the natural consequence of a growing userbase and token increasing in value, or is greatly facilitated by those metrics, and nothing else Valueplan - or anything else - can do will. Every other expenditure of funds will simply fritter away those funds without benefit to the platform and it's community. However, funds disbursed by Valueplan do seem to benefit some specific people.
"Value Plan is a community-driven marketing and promotion initiative and to function as intended requires feedback."
I find this statement utterly contradicted by the refusal to provide receipts for expenditures that are necessary to verify funds are utilized for stated purposes. Multiple parties (@hecatonquirox, @atlashv96, @doze, and others) have stated that Valueplan has facilitated criminal fraud (it's possible people have already contacted tips.fbi.gov or other law enforcement agencies with evidence of such fraud. Given the interest of the US State Department in Venezuela it would be unwise of them to fail to proactively address any potential to be accused of funding terrorism), and despite providing receipts for expenditures could disprove those accusations @guiltyparties has directly refused to provide receipts for those specific expenditures. @lordbutterfly has received substantial payment he has falsely claimed he did not.
"The only thing I was paid for is organizing Hivefest."
@guiltyparties is preventing accounting for Valueplan disbursements. Disbursements that cannot be accounted for cannot be funded without facilitating fraud, and fraud is reported by several eyewitnesses with direct knowledge. @guiltyparties is facilitating fraud. @lordbutterfly is lying about some of the largest disbursements Valueplan makes. Valueplan has given every indication it is a vector for fraud and theft of the large sums of money it disburses, and there's much more evidence than I provide here. More information is available in the detailed posts @blanchy has made regarding Valueplan, and in comments and posts from accounts mentioned above, which anyone considering Valueplan or anyone involved in it should read and understand before voting on any proposal or participating in any endeavor it, or any of it's principals, are involved in.
I don't use Hive as money, and work for a living, so my interest and availability to investigate these matters has been too limited to exhaust the copious evidence of fraud available onchain. Every inquiry I have made leads to the same obfuscation, lies, and fraud that appear to be the purpose of Valueplan's disbursements, without exception. My only involvement is as a Hive user with interest in the DHF benefiting Hive, but after seven years observing the maintenance of governance by the whales I do not have any hope that will change. Folks with substantial stake, or intent to acquire substantial stake, or that have accepted Valueplan funds innocently should address these matters diligently. $M's are flowing out of the DHF, and stripping businesses of their cash on hand is a common practice of vulture capitalists like KKR and Bain Capital Partners, and that looks like what is happening to Hive.
I am confident victims of fraud have reported it to law enforcement, and enforcement will follow investigation, exacerbated by political interest in Venezuela. Sadly this threatens good people with integrity who have received funds from Valueplan, may have never suspected such accusations existed, and who would be wise to keep receipts and document carefully any interactions with Valueplan or it's principals to prove they aren't committing theft by fraud, or worse. Someone is, or will follow the money. Criminals offer up scapegoats as patsies, and will make you a patsy if they can. The best way to prove you are innocent is to not take money from suspect sources.
Because of this taint I can only recommend Valueplan provide accurate and verifiable accounting and receipts for every expense it has incurred and all funds it has disbursed. No strategy will matter until that taint is dispelled because failure to verifiably account disbursements facilitates fraud. Until accurate and verifiable accounting of Valueplan's disbursement of funds is made I strongly recommend everyone vote the return proposal instead of anything related to Valueplan, and that everyone that has been involved in Valueplan take action to fully account for any disbursements from Valueplan to prove their innocence.
Nope. Did not get paid for anything other than Hivefest but even for that I could say that I wasnt paid by "Hive" since we didnt receive the last payment for organization because we decided that the leftover few k from people buying the more expensive tickets was enough for our time.
I actually saved around 15k for Hive by organizing Hivefest myself through using my personal contacts in the tourism industry and making some deals that came up, so youre welcome.
You know youre full of shit and this is just rage bait, but I dont need to tell you that.
So you didn't receive $25k for a sub-event at an artfest, and haven't received payment for photography, and Valueplan is lying about paying you that money?
At this point youre either an idiot or english isnt your strong suit. You even quoted me.
Ill just repeat what you quoted. The only thing I was paid for is organizing Hivefest. That is the only thing I was paid for and with that I bought Hive and some HBD and staked it, as seen in my transactions.
That is the only thing I was paid for ever. And that didnt even come from Hive directly but from what was left over from the tickets. So what I was paid didnt even come from the DHF, but thats besides the point.
See. When I received the funds for photography I didnt actually photograph anything. Shocker! Im not a photographer. The funds I received for Bitbasel, Im not actually organizing Bitbasel! The funds I got for Techex, im not actually the organizer of Techex!
I was not paid for any of that.
I know... handling money, making payments for Hive from my personal bank account, dealing with taxes, dealing with contracts, developing pitches, preparing speeches, working on outreach is something that I know I should be paid for and Im glad that you cant wrap your head around someone doing stuff for free for Hive, but in fact, I am doing EVERYTHING for free with no compensation whatsoever.
So again... you are welcome.
So, where it says 'Vibes, Videography', that's false, and the payouts listed totaling $68,998.85 are not accurate and you did not receive those funds?
How is it false if its in my wallet? My personal wallet with explanations for every single transaction?
You quoted me where im saying clearly that im not getting paid for any of this other than Hivefest and claimed Im lying about not getting paid.
Receiving funds in a completely transparent manner visible to everyone and getting paid for something are two very different things.
Make sure to explain the difference between receiving disbursements as compensation for services and being paid to folks that care. I see these funds were disbursed to you as pay for the listed services. I see you claiming it's not pay, that you didn't perform the services Valueplan says it paid you for.
Imagine my incredulity.
Nowhere does it say Valueplan paid me for any service. It says that its money for the stuff listed in the memo.
If it was payment for a service from me, it would say it was payment for a service from me.
Omg, you genuinely believe that all that money went to me personally? 🤣🤣🤣
Not even 1 cent did. I actually lost a 100 bucks on the last funds i received because I had to hurry and pay for the conference and I lost 1700 USD on the conversion that I covered from selling my own tokens that then pumped before I got the money back.
Are you seriously this deluded thinking that Valueplan would simply give me money.
After telling me:
So, you're telling me they just gave you money, but that I'm deluded for believing you when you tell me they just gave you money personally, but that you didn't even receive 1 cent personally.
You received all that money personally, in your personal wallet. You originally claimed you were paid for organizing Hivefest, but now you're saying you lost $100. Are you surprised that these contradictory claims aren't credible? What would you think reading them?
Considering I actually can think, it would be very clear to me.
Receiving the funds to pay for stuff thats listed in the memo and getting paid for stuff personally are two very different things.
You do seem to be thinking on your feet here. I've got to hand you that. Despite your contradictory statements, and occasional ad hominems flung at me, you demonstrate a capacious ability to switch stories rapidly, and with great conviction.
However, I see that you are claiming you personally received that money and then paid it to others, so I'm looking. We'll see if you did or not. Instead of just stating that out front, you said you never got paid any money personally, despite ~70k being sent to your account.
You could just be an inchoate, lying asshole instead of a thief, but I'll never find that out from anything you say. Just talking about you talking is confusing. I'll have to see if ~70k was disbursed from your account last month.
You are literally an insane person, my god.
Im done here.
Run out of insults? You certainly didn't provide any clarity regarding the massive expenditures of funds you are receiving. All you have done is reveal your lack of integrity and good character by flaming me for daring to ask you what you did with our money.
You see the DHF doesn't belong to you, and it doesn't belong to the whales, or just to the voters on proposals. It belongs to Hive, to the whole community, so if it's being stolen by you, or anyone else, you're stealing from the whole community, and we have a right to demand to know exactly what you're spending and what you're spending it on.
You remind me of the guy that stole my cellphone, and I'm sure everyone can remember similar incidents they've experienced when some thief proclaims they're as pure as the driven snow and only a psycho conspiracy theorist would ever even suspect them of theft, which is all you've done.
You and the well named @guiltyparties are doing exactly what every thief caught with their hand in the cookie jar does, which is anything but provide receipts that prove their innocence.
And that's all you'd have to do to prove you're not a thief, a liar, and a fraud. But you'd rather rant and spew vitriol instead of simply providing proof you didn't steal a thing.
Just because you don't answer my questions here doesn't mean you won't have to answer questions. I'm a lot less trouble than some other folks that will be wanting to know what's happened to Hive's development fund that you have been spending tens of thousands of dollars worth monthly. But, not answering me was your choice.
You made the bed you'll be lying in, since you're done lying on my blog.
Heard tht mic drop from here. LoL nice.
Ok, so I looked. I don't see any payments to any photographers, or to any event host.
What did you do with the money?
You're misreading what he's saying. He's saying his role is to take the funds and pay them to a vendor. If he gets a transfer that reads "photography" in the memo, that doesn't mean he's the photographer. He is the person who takes that money and pays the photographer. Same goes for Hive merch. He's not sitting there sewing shirts, he's buying them and paying the manufacturer. He's a volunteer, like all the others.
He didn't say that out front. It took him hours and hours to grudgingly get around to saying that. What he said originally was that he didn't get paid, and lo and behold there's ~70k paid into his account.
What a fucking clusterfuck. You assholes are going to get the State Department seizing the DHF if you don't start following some rational accounting procedures. Then you can beg them to look at receipts while wearing an orange jumpsuit in Gitmo.
Optimistically assuming noone's lying, and that it's just people everywhere, not every one has a great skill in using perfect style and wording straight off the first post.. I can totally see how he could say "I wasnt paid" and how it was not, in fact, lie.
It always amused me, how much stuff people are doing wihtout proper documentation proving/backing it all up, just riding on a belief that days/weeks/months later people will just believe them for word that it was all good. But on the other hand, "proper accounting" is only good if you ever have a "proper auditor" verifying that. "Normal people" won't dive in, or even will end up with wrong conclusions. I don't know how to all-encompasing trasparent view into the moneyflows and actual work done. In a few places on the network I saw people doing extensive reportage/coverage, photography, invoice scans, but looks like there's usually a separate person/team needed to do that while the actual team does the actual work. I'd love to leave a constructive thought here, but I'm out of idea how to provide both a decent sufficient at-glance and in-depth coverage easily with no crippling effort..
I spend thousands of dollars of other people's money all the time. I get receipts. It's a simple way to never have these problems, for my clients to know I never stole their money.
I've never faced this kind of refusal to document expenditures of other people's money without there having been fraud. People that didn't steal showed proof they didn't steal. People that weasel around it, deny there's any reason to suspect them of theft, well, they're always thieves.
God bless you for this thread...
it really speaks volumes about hive and the fact that it's a shitcoin run by a few who really believe in themselves... Come to BLURT and bring some friends.
I wonder how the fucking hell anyone can imagine that you didn't get a big chunk of those $68,998.85 as "payment of personal fees" when it is not clearly specified in the memo that way?
¿Do you suppose people have to be soothsayers?
What you and Valueplan have to do is show to the community each and every receipt of what those funds were spent on, and see how much of those $69k was missing or how much was surplus and how many of those funds were reimbursed and only then we can be able to confirm whether it is true that not a single cent of those funds went to end up to your own pocket/wallet as you exclaim.
Obviously everyone would feel this deluded unless you or Valueplan show the receipts and prove otherwise.
What is perfectly clear is that Valueplan sent $69k directly to your personal wallet and we still don't know how much, in what and how it was invested/wasted.
When you buy stuff there do you get a receipt?
Of course. You always get a receipt. What you may not always get is a formal invoice unless you ask for one. But a receipt is always there, especially when you pay by card.
Is there some kind of threat receipts present there, some security risk?
I'm not quite sure to understand what you mean by threat receipts?
But nope, there is no such thing here. At the very least, you will always are gonna get the simple receipt issued by the points of sale every time you pay through debit or credit card large sums of money. For trivial and cheap stuff that you can pay with cash, probably you won't get any sort of receipt unless you ask for one.
Is there some kind of threat that receipts create to either the businesses that provide them or the people that receive them with their purchases? That's what I meant.
So, for purchases of more than $100 you would get a receipt every time?
Ah, ok. I think I understand what you mean now. You ask me if might be some kind of "threat" to your security, privacy or anonymity if to get a receipt it requires you to provide more private or personal information than necessary with which someone later could track you and your purchase history?
No, I don't think so. Over here you could get a receipt or detailed invoice with all the items you bought and their price without necessarily having to give your address or ID number and only providing your name or the name of any person in whose name the receipt or purchase invoice must be issued.
Well, it's that simple unless you want to later deduct the amount from those receipts from your tax return or something like that. In which case then obviously you would have to provide your ID number and residential address to make them effective.
On other hand, a few years ago there were stricter government controls that forced businesses to register you in their databases beforehand if you wanted to make a purchase from them. But now with the free circulation of the dollar in the country as a form of payment for your purchases, these strict controls have been somewhat relaxed.
Thanks for clarifying that, because @guiltyparties was putting forth security as the reason he would not provide receipts for the disbursements that the former SWC members are claiming were fraudulent. I didn't think there was any such concern, and you have confirmed it on the ground there.
As I thought, he's blowing smoke up our skirts about security, which is just bullshit excuses to hide what the money was actually spent on.
Thanks very much!
Exactly, that's correct. There is no major concerns or actual threats for anyone in Vzla for getting a receipt or detailed invoice for their purchases.
Yeah, you only have to ask for them if you want them in case someone, through carelessness or negligence, did not give them to you automatically, without this having to be a threat or security issue for the business or for you.
My pleasure mate!
To be honest, some of the things that valued-customer points out - sound totally reasonable and plausible - for a random reader that just shows up, has no idea about the plot&history&origins, reads (sic!) what one or other side writes now, and well, yeah, that transfer to that account definitely can look like - a transfer to that account. Money sent, money received, why/when/what happens next is kinda secondary ... to an ignorant reader.
I can totally understand how someone can be angry, or at least, have their curiosity piqued, seeing this transfer.
But after actually reading what you wrote.. Yeah, I see your point too. I was there too. I mean, in this kind of situations. I was accused by neighoburs of defrauding money that were pooled up for a shared goal, while in fact it was all spent, and I still had a little box with cents and dimes of change left after, and I also silently added some cash to the pool "for the good of all". My personal time and literal manual labor (that they all saw) spent on that not even counted in as a "cost" of the project. And in the result and had to fight off accusations for a few weeks, because angry mob grew faster than one me explaining and countering arguments. I bet some of them still remember me as a fraud despite whatever proofs I showed them.
Fun fact - my dad had exactly the same thing, with their parents, 15-20 years earlier. At least twice, in two separate projects to improve residential infrastructure around us.
Seems times change, people change, but people's mentality doesn't, eh?
One thing that I learned from that is, if you ever receive any funds and perform anything for "charity", "common good", or whatever similar, have a goddamn blunt clear invoices for everything. If you care about your own "reputation" that is.
If "angry mob" gathers, won't look at them, because it's not the point. The point is to be angry and to have a target and to meet in a crowd or to feel included with a group.
Have it all gathered, catagorized, tallied up in a spreadsheet. Over half of the complainers won't read anything other than final in-out amounts, if they even take a look at all. Post it in public and tell it's all there, that they can inspect and check, and that they can sue you if they want, because it's all good.
Now magically complaints disappear. Everyone assumes "others were angry, they will check". And probably noone does. Or if someone does, does it really good, revealing all the holes in what I/you/one thought was transparent and clear. Eh.
OTOH, heh, I think I'm still a bit grumpy about that event after all those years :) But I think if back then I really did what I just wrote, I'd have much less problems. But then, with the amount of work I have already spent, I'm not sure I'd be willing to add more work to improve the documentation&transparency just in case someone might question something.. but in turn, doing so, might jsut be the reasonable self-preservation instict
Receipts would really answer the questions. What makes me angry is both of them refuse to provide any such receipts.
Then they call me names and say I'm a conspiracy theorist.
Sounds like they're concealing fraud to me. As you point out, it would be easy enough to prove they aren't, and that's all I have asked for them to do.
If only all projects would be as transparen as we are.
We used a seperate account for funds so it's fast to find and see and you don't have to look for a transaction for a month and also posted all the receipts in our posts.
Like here in this article we showed what we paid and there are more receipts in other of our articles: https://ecency.com/hive-186377/@cbrsphilanthropy/helping-a-school-in-venezuela-272130e9293f
Indeed, the linked post was thorough and clearly explained what funds came in and how they were spent. The work was carefully detailed, and documented with pictures showing progress. It is exemplary of how all the questions Valueplan is failing to answer would never need to be asked. Valueplan should use your post as a template for all their projects going forward.
I commend you on your diligence, hard work, and impeccable integrity achieving this benefit to the students you will enable to learn how to themselves benefit their communities their entire lives.
Great work!
¡En @team-mexico estamos agradecidos que formes parte de nosotros!
Contenido votado con cariño. ❤️
Gracias!
Interesante ❤️
Interesting tales always are.
Thanks!
No siempre son interesantes, buenas noches ❤️
Most social media platforms don't pay users squat. It takes a lot of entitlement to think every poster deserves something even though their posts have very few viewers, they have invested next to no funds of their own and they don't bring outside attention to Hive - they're not really providing value. The DHF is not a tax, you agreed to it by accepting the free Hive given to you in the hardfork, if you don't like it stay on Steem or go somewhere like Medium. No one owes you any upvotes or any percentage of the hive inflation. A tax would be taking some of your personal Hive, so before you go around stomping your feet at least get your facts right because it's hard to take you seriously. Not that I think everything about the DHF is right, especially the part about whales being able to manipulate it with disproportionate votes that removes the decentralizing part, but it's not a tax.
I have issues with the Value Plan but believe they are trying. It was noted that Venezuela is getting a disproportionate amount of VP funds, Hive isn't a charity and there is little to gain from targeting that country. What I don't agree with is that you are proposing there is fraud based on what a few people said. You're essentially accusing people of criminal activity with zero proof, it's slander. Also this is happening in Venezuela, where the FBI has no jurisdiction. There are dozens of examples of where the VP did something charitable and just because they don't give you or your friends money doesn't imply they are stealing it. Where there is money there are inefficiencies, waste and unfairness, the VP is not perfect.
The VP passed the proposal fair and square so they can do what they want with the funds. They could just take all the money and run and there is nothing you can do about it except campaign to not get their proposals passed again. They don't owe you receipts, accounting documents or an audit, this would just cost money and require people to do unpaid work. Are you willing to pay $100 to $200 an hour for a CPA to audit every single expense the value plan has? What about hiring a lawyer? Calling the FBI won't accomplish anything because again, VP didn't steal anything from you or anyone, they just got votes to take and spend some inflation.
The sports car is a tremendous waste of money and so is subsidizing an in person Hivefest with VP, they can do this with upvotes or large stakeholders can pay, we shouldn't have to direct some inflation to help a minor percentage of people fraternize on the shores of the Adriatic sea. That being said I don't think you should get yourself so worked up about this. If you really care, try talking to Blocktrades or some of the larger whales supporting VP, ask them why they are supporting it.
Its fine to disagree with what VP is doing. Its fine to agree. The proposal is funded because stake thinks its a good thing to do. I disagree with some of it as well. Each of us are trying to find what will work in the end.
Exactly, hopefully they don't keep funding things without metrics showing it is providing value and hopefully they keep trying to fund new things to see what works. Anyone who wasted money or who pilfered funds should be outed and blacklisted.
Ethicaly one might say you owe hive your goal to acknowledge public concerns and focus on resolving the issue constructively. You have been dodging questions left and right. So I'll ask you simply and to the point. Soft ball questions. Yes or no.
Do note that memo line do not count to what I am about to ask here. Do you have any invoices and receipts of payments made with the funds given to your account, yes or no?
If you do, please present them all.
Ethically I dont owe anything to you. Practically speaking it would be idiotic to share it publicly. Legally speaking its not possible to present most of it.
All these payments are checked by top investors and proposal supporters as a safeguard.
People with real skin in the game who would most be affected by misuse of the funds as opposed to someone with 100 bucks worth of Hive whose main interest is not financially motivated but rather motivated by boredom.
If you want to check if Bitbasel received the funds I forwarded to them you can contact them easily. If they want to disclose it or not is on them.
https://www.bitbasel.miami/#contact
"Ethically I dont owe anything to you."
I didn't anything about this being about me or anything being owed to me directly. I said you owe it to hive. As in the entirety of hive who has a stake in it, regardless of its amount staked.
People with skin im the game are people waiting to be burned. I have no hands to grasp the mountains or feet to climb the stairs but I hover of it all like a lotus over the pond, and I definitely do not have any "skin". And even with my scorched eyes I see clearly the sun rise and the sun set behind me.
Irrelevant to the question at hand.
Sure thanks.
Was looking for a simple and shorter answer though. It's nice to know how consistent you are to dodging questions.
So was that a "no" then?
Technically I only "owe" something to proposal supporters. VP has key holders that are the major proposal supporters. They all have access to the confidential contracts and invoices.
Are you on drugs? Huffing that galaxy stuff?
Core to how Hive works.
I wont share a confidential contract publicly but it takes you 5 seconds to send an email.
Here, ill write it for you so its 2 seconds:
"Hey, I have 100 bucks worth of Hive and Im technically a Hive stakeholder. Can you confirm that Hive will be present at Bitbasel and that you have received the 25k USD as seen on the Hive blockchain."
If I remember correctly these stake holders have also control over hive stake that was copied from the ninja mined stake, correct? Which would mean it very does include the interest of those that didn't vote for VP proposal.
You know the importance of transparency correct?
What ever is stopping you to display what is available to display legally?
You know, since there is concern over you recieving kickbacks.
Anyways, different question.
"Who is bdhivesteem?"
There is absolutely no concern of me receiving kickbacks. Where have you seen concerns? 😂
One nutjob conspiracy theorist talking shit and making up accusations of fraud is not what I would ever consider a "concern". If anything he should be concerned about libel as im not an anon. I can sue his scumbag ass.
Im not here to justify myself, those most invested in Hive would be the first to cut me off if I stole even a dime, im here to push back against useless pieces of shit, that dont contribute anything of value to Hive, that havent spent 1 second of their time to benefit this platform, that spread FUD, try to tie my name to terrorism, fraud, or whatever stupid shit this moron is doing.
Binance
It's always instructive to see people resort to ad hominems when they have no evidence, no arguements to support their position.
Your character is revealed by your every comment.
You accused me of fraud, stealing, terorism or whatever and some deserved insults hurt your feelings. I feel for you. Truly. In the meantime go fuck yourself.
Actually, you're defending yourself from accusations that only existed in your head. For some weeks now individuals that say they directly witnessed fraud have been alleging it, and the funds sent your way raised some questions, which were asked. It is your stunning disingenuity, failure to respond to any questions forthrightly, scathing vitriol, and complete inability to actually account for ~$70k of disbursements in just the last month that really sparked suspicion of you personally. Read what I actually wrote, and go back to our original conversations when you immediately began spewing insults and deriding me personally just for asking questions.
No one does business that way. That's what little kids do when they're caught stealing a dollar out of mom's purse, or cheating on a test. You act like no one ever asks questions about how money is spent in business, and that's ridiculous. That's why receipts even exist, why there are accountants and bookkeepers, so that those questions can be resolved satisfactorily proving theft and fraud isn't being committed. But that's not something you even attempted. Instead you've done everything you could to create the impression you didn't get lots of money, and then tried to make asking questions painful by being a complete asshole, and keep trying to make excuses for why you don't have to, or can't, show receipts. You're acting like there isn't an entire industry keeping track of money in business, like you've never heard of fraud and theft by fraud and the whole idea is ridiculous and could never happen in real life. It's the most transparent bullshit I've ever seen in my life.
All I said about you in my post was that you falsely denied being paid that money, because that's what you did when I asked you about it. You were in fact paid that money, which would be true even if you did later use it to pay other people. Whether or not you kept any of it after that doesn't have anything to do with being paid it first. That's the difference between gross and net, not whether you got paid.
So, you're a liar, and it's your lies, verbal tirades, and abuse that created ever increasing suspicion. You're literally the poster child for every cliche about guilty conscience and defending from accusations that were never even made creating suspicion that didn't exist until you freaked out.
Anyone that has read any of that bizarre offensive trying to prevent inquiry into Valueplan disbursements you handled can't help but suspect you've mishandled funds. All you had to do if you were competent and honest when someone inquired about how the money was used is provide some answers about how it was spent in a reasonable, professional manner, but you're so incompetent and emotionally volatile you sperged out like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
You're really not good at this. You have absolutely no chill, and that attracts attention you don't want to the very thing you're trying to conceal, which is what you actually did with the huge sums of money you flat refuse to disclose. None of that has anything to do with me. What comes out of you is what is in you. What you say reveals who you are. You have created this situation you're in, and now none of the reasonable actions you could have taken will suffice to explain how you've handled the money, because you've made it really obvious you're hiding things and are terrified they'll be discovered. Anger is the child of fear, and your inchoate rage comes from absolute terror.
People you have been dealing with are going to contact you with some advice, if they haven't already. If there's lots of money going missing, they're going to be very motivated to keep you from leading to them. If you are this terrified of answering my questions, I can't even imagine how fast you'll cave being questioned by cops, and that makes you a potential liability to anyone downstream. Good luck, because you have absolutely no skill at this, and you're going to need it if your behaviour is any clue to your integrity.
You really need help. 🤣
Paranoid fantasies of a keyboard lunatic.
You stupid fuck, you dont think the Hive whales that are the VP keyholders have access to all the contracts and expenditures? You think VP dishes out money willy-nilly to me? On my good word? 😂
Oh is it? My absolute rage comes from being accused of fraud and threatened by a reprehensible piece of shit such as yourself.
There is no man born of a woman that will accuse me of such things and that ill let it fly without responding in kind.
What I said was:
Quote me where I accused you of fraud.
Indeed.
I pointed out the evidence. You supplied the accusation because that is the natural conclusion the evidence points to. You're not responding to my accusations. You're responding to what you imagine I mean, not to my actual words, to the conclusions drawn from the evidence I cite, that you then project on me. This is why I have directed you to read what I wrote, repeatedly.
I said you're a liar, because you lied to me. Since I supplied proof of that, you haven't addressed it. But you keep raging at the accusation that only exists in your mind, that you yourself draw from the evidence and project onto my words because I have cited the evidence. That's why I now tell you to quote the words I posted that accuse you of fraud, because they only exist in your head. You're lying again, because you can't tell reality from your fantasy about the world.
Hilarious coming from you. Not only did I address all of it multiple times, but GP also addressed part of it in a comment.
Continue bringing up my name in your idiotic conspiracy theorist ramblings and you will get the same treatment as you did now. One of the very few things I hate more online than conspiracy nutjobs is when they make me a part of their delirious ramblings.
Anyone that is capable of understanding and has bothered to read this far will have observed you have presented no evidence whatsoever to support any claim you have made, and that your scatological and child-like insults reveal the quality of your character. You have chosen to lie in the bed you have made, and that is the bed you will lie in.
I have alerted Hive to these issues, and that is my purpose. Thank you for proving me right.
I owe you nothing. You accuse, share your delirious fantasies of conspiratorial action, threaten with FBI, police, Guantanamo bay 🤣 as you did in our last discussion, as you do now, and claim im the one that needs to provide "evidence" of who knows what.
Onward Don Quixote there are windmills to slay. 😂
There we go... "scientist" in bio, concluding a absurd hypothesis to be true on no evidence whatsoever, yourself claiming I provided none to speak of. 😂
A conspiracy scientist if I ever saw one.
Just to let you know, I'm done bothering with you. You just spew vitriol without any informational content, and I've already heard it. If you had something useful, particularly anything that could prove I was wrong, I'd have been happy to learn from you. Your incompetence is just hollow and repetitive, so I have moved on.
Go away now.
...till your next paranoid episode.
I haven't insulted your character once. Yet you have been doing it the entire time. If you could restrain your emotions and show some self control and answer questions or even have a civil discourse it would win you some points of credibility.
However when you double down on the idiocy to attack my character it only projects your own insecurities that you don't have a sound argument.
There is. It's being talked about from plenty off of hive. You're just starting to get the attention for it. The more you act this way to hide information and dodging simple question with throwing this tantrum of yours and ad hominem attacks, speaks volumes.
Thank you for finally answering directly. Much quicker we can move forward this way.
On October 30th 2024 valueplan sent you 25,000HBD, on the memo it reads:
Surely you remember, then a few days after that, on November 3rd, 2024, you sent to
Approximately 135kHIVE, the two transactions are not related in any way, yes or no?
Haha. I could not give a single fuck. So you have an issue with me calling that guy a piece of shit, but not an issue with accusing someone of fraud, lying, stealing, saying that wer going to be locked up in guantanamo with terorists?
Well, priorities, amirite. You can go fuck yourself as well. 😘
👍
Edit: great display of character wouldn't you say readers?
Surely this is what investors are looking for to join hive. This is who is put there being paid to represent the hive community. A man child with no accountability in his persona.
Do what you may with all the information here. I'll present it all again in order of time in a separate post.
When you hear back from bitbasel, please let me know their response. They're in Miami, which is definitely in FBI jurisdiction. I bet there's people on Hive in Florida that could scope things out there and see if there's a sub-event worth $25k going on.
Kinda sorry you're having to take this crap too. I appreciate not being the only target of this vitriol, though.
Thanks!
I sent them an email just now. I didn't do it yesterday due it being late for me requested information regarding this issue for transparency on whatever they can offer to show the funds are being used adequately and to present them to hive. I'll show you the email in matrix.
And don't sweat it, dealing with bad mouths is like dealing with a child. Just mock them with humor is the only remedy. They dig their own holes by themselves and this asshole is already waist deep.
Ok, I look forward to whatever we can learn.
Thanks!
Just like out of your paycheck, right? Exactly the same dynamic as DV's. Exactly the same impact on production. DV's are taxes as far as Hive can reproduce them.
I never implied in any way that it was. The DHF is the Founder's stake that @ned sold to Sun Yuchen, reproduced on Hive as a fund for development. However the whales have a controlling interest in that fund, just as they do in governance. You seem to have some misunderstanding of what I did say, because I never implied the DHF was a tax. DV's are taxes, as close as Hive can get to them. The DHF is like cash on hand, quite the opposite of a tax.
The stake has spoken. It will be disbursed without receipts, without accounting, and everything is just fine, trust the whales, pleb.
@guiltyparties isn't just 'some people'. It's a simple thing to account for expenditures. I did it yesterday when I purchased materials. $M's are being spent with nary a receipt in sight. Multiple people allege fraud, and the only means of disproving their allegations, which you can read for yourself to ascertain their credibility, is to account for expenditures with receipts. There is no accounting, and that is facilitation of fraud.
No, if I made a malicious statement in written media, it would be libel. Slander is verbal, libel is written. However, what I said was "@guiltyparties is preventing accounting for Valueplan disbursements. Disbursements that cannot be accounted for cannot be funded without facilitating fraud, and fraud is reported by several eyewitnesses with direct knowledge. @guiltyparties is facilitating fraud."
That's not libel. Those are facts.
I demanded @guiltyparties show receipts when multiple people alleged fraud because that would prove there was no fraud. Everything he said in response to those accusations reeked of disingenuity, and finally he flatly refused to provide receipts.
Look at my account. Note the date when I interacted with any of the people involved. None prior to these accusations. Note all the times I cashed out of Hive. Zero. I've never once taken a slim dime out of Hive. Speaking of libel, you are making up accusations out of hole cloth with absolutely no evidence whatsoever maliciously. Perhaps know something about the people you're bad mouthing before you do it.
Tell that to Julian Assange. However, many of the users of Hive are not in Venezuela, and US laws govern many financial matters that involve sending money to Venezuela. For a variety of reasons, mostly bad, even criminal IMHO, the USA is extremely dedicated to economic sanctions on Venezuela, and disbursing funds in which Americans have a financial interest or bear fiduciary responsibility without any accounting for where that money goes is a great way to attract the interest of financial crimes and even terrorist funding investigators. Cuba isn't in the FBI's bailiwick either, but Venezuela is very cautious about providing the oil Cuba desperately needs, because of American sanctions on Cuba.
Hive should not be poking that bear by disbursing funds that could be buying AK-47's for all we know. It doesn't even matter if we think that very thought is ridiculous, because it matters if it could be useful politically to evil bastards that could care less about any facts of the matter.
Are you completely unfamiliar with doing business? Where did I demand an audit? Where did I mention a CPA? The money spent was spent on specific items that commonly generate receipts. When I buy materials I get a receipt. It doesn't take any CPA's or audits to provide receipts. I provide those receipts on the jobs I do so that there is no question of whether the money was spent on materials instead of hookers and blow. I do that so there is no question as to my integrity, so the people I do work for can be absolutely sure I am not committing fraud and stealing their money. It costs absolutely nothing to do.
That's how honest work is done.
@guiltyparties has spent a few hours arguing there is nothing but misunderstandings, which the parties alleging fraud absolutely deny. He could prove there is no fraud easily, without expense of any kind, or hours of arguing, by just providing receipts. As I do. As all honest people do. Instead he's spending a lot of time arguing against it.
No, that's not where the DHF comes from. The DHF has nothing to do with inflation. It was ninjamined stake in Steem @ned and @dan created before the code to mine Steem was released to the public, that @ned eventually sold to Sun Yuchen. When Hive was created that stake was reproduced as the DHF. In a sense everyone on Hive has an interest in those funds, proportional to their stake. The DHF is a fund you have an interest in, and Valueplan is spending your money, and mine, and everyone on Hive, too.
You have misunderstood some things, unfortunately, and particularly the specific accusations I have made. I did not allege there was fraud. I said there were eyewitness allegations of fraud, which I provided links to. I said @guiltyparties is facilitating fraud by not verifiably accounting for the expenditures Valueplan is making in Venezuela, which means that money could be spent on anything, such as kickbacks. I pointed out that the USA has economic sanctions on Venezuela that make that a dangerous thing to do that could cause Hive all sorts of problems we don't need, and all he has to do to prevent all those problems is to provide receipts, which he has refused to do.
That's very sus.
There are links to accounts that Valueplan principals control that funds are being sent to from accounts of people in Venezuela that receive funds from Valueplan. That suggests kickbacks that would be a reason to vote for Valueplan, a mechanism to mine the DHF and strip it of cash.
None of this is necessary for Valueplan to promote Hive with calisthenics exhibitions because receipts would prove that expenditures for merch and equipment were made to actual retailers instead of extracted by fraud. Every time you spend money at a retailer you get a receipt. If you spend someone elses money you give them the receipt and their change. That's how honest people work.
That's not how Valueplan is working.
Thank you for the clarification and I wish you luck
Dear @valued-customer !
Are you saying Valueplan is a scam?
I'm saying that there are people that are alleging fraud, and that proof that fraud has not occurred should be provided to prove it didn't happen. Failure to disclose proof payments were made for necessary goods and services instead of hookers and blow aids and abets fraud.
@guiltyparties and @lordbutterfly are refusing to disclose proof of payments they made and thus enable fraud to be ongoing and indetectable.
Congratulations @valued-customer! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain And have been rewarded with New badge(s)
Your next payout target is 11000 HP.
The unit is Hive Power equivalent because post and comment rewards can be split into HP and HBD
You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word
STOP@valued-customer, I paid out 0.453 HIVE and 0.092 HBD to reward 23 comments in this discussion thread.
From a marketing standpoint, claiming Hive is decentralised and transparent, while spending large sums of money without any paper trail or transparency is an epic failure. I don't know what's really going on here because there is no transparency, but it would be wise to be transparent instead of publicly abusive. This is really anti-marketing.
Yes, it is.
Thanks!
Someone who takes funds from the dhf shouldn't be able to use that same money to downvote good users. That's like taking your money to downvote you, double indemnity.
I agree. If there's a good reason for a downvote, then making a proposal like for DHF funding would support it. DV's are taxes. Hive, and Steem before, enable unrestrained taxation, punitive or otherwise, of anyone's content in order to make it less rewarding for the creator to publish on Hive. I have talked to someone very concerned about spam, scams and other potential disruptions of the platform, Marky, and was told that DV's do very little to discourage spammers and scammers, because these are monetized by other means than author rewards. As Marky explained HW receives orders of magnitude more in DHF funding to force people off Hive than they actually prevent spam from causing. HW are Hive's Marketing Program today - and they're specifically driving people off and away from Hive!
There's no good reason for DV's, and thousands of people will explain that DV's chased them off the platform, so there's that many bad reasons.
The ninjamined stake of the earliest oligarchy today continues to control governance by suppressing growth that would increase distribution of the token. By controlling growth, and controlling the code the witnesses run, they continue to enable themselves to capture the lion's share of inflation from the rewards pool. There were ~35 whales that ninjamined massive stakes when Steem was created, and there's ~35 whales that hold the majority of Hive today. The reason they have maintained governance and the majority of stake is DV's. Using DHF funds to flag people with is just pouring salt and vinegar on the wound, but adding insult to injury like that is just bad manners, too.
I have been donating 25% of my author rewards to good creators that are continually flagged for years (although I've recently begun using 5% to reward comments instead, when CommentRewarder was introduced, and only donating 20% to DV victims). If more people did that there'd be no point to funding HW and the other flaggots that are suppressing Hive growth, and they'd have to find another scam. Folks can donate as little as 1% of their author rewards in this way to fight the flags that are driving people, that produce good content, off the platform. I strongly encourage everyone to donate even just 1% of their author rewards in that way to support free speech and help Hive grow. Everyone can afford that.
Thanks!