Heads Up For Leo Delegators
Are You A Leo Delegator?
First, let me be clear: I really appreciate Leo's efforts with LeoDex, Leo 2.0 and Inleo among other projects they have recently released. It's clear to me that overall the team is a positive force for Hive and we should be glad that they are so dedicated. That said, I do want to give Leo delegators a heads up regarding their investment into their economy.
Ever since Leo 2.0 and the token switching to a deflationary tokenomics price has been up, especially since many are also anticipating the staking rewards on the Dex soon. But it also means that Leo has to be bought back for it to be distributed back to the community. In the past Leo was simply minted so there was never a shortage. With this new model, the Leo has to come from the market. But is there enough for delegators?
I will argue: no, there apparently isn't. Leo.voter is claiming to give HP delegators a 18% APR which is quite a lot. Does that claim hold up?
For around 2 weeks I have been checking people's delegations and the answer is clear: Delegators are getting a fraction of it. In fact, current delegators receive less than what they would get with their HP curation. The results have been consistent overall; delegators on average receive 6-7% at the moment. Yes, it has been several hundred % for anyone that has delegated before the pump, but that doesn't help someone new that decides to delegate.
We can see this by checking the wallet:
E.g. @sepracore is delegating around 200k HP, @jacobtothe around 3k. But they only receive around 71 Leo and 1 Leo respectively. With the Leo/Hive ratio at around 0.5 they are only getting at best around 35 and 0.5 Hive.
200k * 0.06/365=33
3k * 0.06/365=0.5
The result is consistent for high and low amounts of HP delegation.
Conclusion
Again, I appreciate what Leo is providing, but they should also make their claims more transparent. 18% might have been paid out at some time in the past (again, it was a lot higher before the pump), but for several weeks delegators are receiving a fraction of it. I don't think many are aware of this. If one is a Leo believer that shouldn't necessarily discourage one from delegating; Leo does have the potential to "flip" Hive again. But you should know that Leo isn't paid out at the claimed amount (most likely because there simply isn't enough around - which could also be seen as positive).
With this post I simply wanted to highlight the state of Leo delegation. I myself am looking forward to stake my Leo on the Dex soon!
As a general reminder: Please keep in mind that none of this is official investment advice! Crypto trading entails a great deal of risk; never spend money that you can't afford to lose!
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Counterpoints:
Delegation isn't just about ROI, it's also about supporting projects which benefit the community in the long term.
In a deflationary and volatile market, current market price and net token quantity are less important than projected long-term potential value.
I agree, I just wanted to get the message out :)
Well, there are some readers here... stilll......
Exactly so! I delegated in the past, and delegate now to several Hive projects without even thinking about a profit supposed. (well, except just one of them).
Leo appears to be in the process of moving off Hive. I have some mixed sentiments about mechanisms that appear to be one-way value flows off chain.
If they leave the HIVE ecosystem, my support ends. Simple as.
I think that's what we are seeing now, a decoupling. From the Leo Dex documents, LEO is a Arbitrum token. You cannot connect to Leo Dex directly with Hive. So in order to stake Leo on Leo Dex, you must either use external assets to purchase Leo, on BSC, Polygon, or Arbitrum - or convert Hive Engine assets into some portable token like LTC.
Looking at recent posts of LEO users they are indeed divesting from Hive. For 100% clarity I'm not suggesting these efforts should be impeded. Hive has some norms and some directionality, people may find themselves out of alignment with with values of the major stakeholders.
If the Leo ecosystem represents a net outflow of value from Hive itself, I can understand why some of the downvoting or countervoting of Leo.Voter occurred.
I am genuinely curious to see if Leo can sustain value in a decoupled state from Hive.
that is I guess a possibility... Moving Inleo would be a pretty big task though. That's where Hive shines atm
it's hard to measure ROI or APR if you are paid with different tokens. ROI or APR for HP delegation only works for HIVE dividend. Else you will end up in long round looping debate and discussion.
However I am on the same page with you, it's just I dislike talking it in public because it is not constructive.
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the answer is no. (do not delegate, and dont plan to). would love to say: and never did, but that would be a lie... at some point I tried to delegate to this project, but revoked it shortly.
lol. wow! who ever could imagine that, hehe. 😜 thanx for your investigation. and all the efforts given
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Investigation of 1 day’s worth of payouts? People need to read and DYOR
please see my answer to the comment above. I did the analysis for the last 3+ weeks and others have reported similar findings. I don't have a problem with how you guys are running leo.voter, but I simply think there should be more transparency so people know what they can expect (perhaps this was communicated and I missed it!).
Hey, @tobetada, is there a way I can speak to you privately, please?
I guess you could use the peakD chat?
I’m sorry but did you just pull a day’s worth of delegation data without reading the docs that it’s a trailing APR?
The APR is 16% since LEO 2.0 and the new model uses a trailing + forecast average to pay delegators. By pulling 1 day, you showed very little
Pull the last 2 months and project forward and you get reality. The cherry-picked data needs to stop
I checked the last 2-3 weeks and APR is at around 6% overall. I actually thought that it must be some pretty long average for calculating the pay outs. How exactly does the forecast work?
alright, I took 30 mins to run the numbers; I guess I should have done that first. The result, however, is what I expected as they are a bit over 7%. With this post I just wanted to highlight this discrepancy. Clearly this could quickly reverse should Leo/Hive ratio go up again. Would it be possible to do some fine tuning? Seems like since price is so volatile a more strict calculation would be yielding closer numbers to the target. All in all, looking forward to September 23rd :)
These are numbers for my delegation:
note: I eye balled the leo/hive ratios from the chart
Indeed, i noticed it droped to less than 7% here
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