Global Collapse – Part 4: History of Tensions
Hi Everyone,
Welcome to Part 4 of my five part series discussing the possible collapse of western civilisation, as we know it today. Part 4 is a continuation of Part 3. In Part 3, I discussed how the war between Israel and Hamas has been a trigger for tensions around the world. In Part 4, I discuss some of the history and problems between Palestine and Israel. This part serves to add context to the other parts in this series.
Disclaimer: The issues between Israel and Palestine are complicated. I have read many different accounts of the problems between the two sides. Facts presented are tainted by opinions. There are various interpretations of events and the motivations. In this post, I attempt to understand the evidence as best I can. I will never be as well informed as those who are closer to events but I am also less likely to have a strong bias. In terms of my own bias. I have long sympathised with the Palestinian’s circumstances. However, as I dig deeper into the problems and the lesser publicised facts, I find myself more sympathetic towards Israel’s position, which is less apparent to outsiders. It is important to have flexible opinions that can change when presented with different evidence.
Modern Day Palestine
In 1988, through the Palestinian Declaration of Independence, the State of Palestine was formally established. However, the Palestinian Government had no control or authority over any territory. It was not until 1994, through the Gaza-Jericho Agreement, that Palestine could self-govern (Wikipedia). The West Bank Palestinian territory is partially ruled by the Palestinian Authority. The West Bank is fragmented into 165 Palestinian enclaves. The rest of the West Bank is under full Israeli control. After Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 (Wikipedia), Gazans were given the opportunity to self-govern. They elected Hamas. This triggered several years of fighting. Since 2007, Hamas have had full control of Gaza. In 2012, Palestine was upgraded to the status of non-member observer state in the United Nations. Currently, Palestine is widely but not universally recognised as a state.
West Bank Problems
The disconnectivity between the Palestinian settlements on the West Bank is a huge problem. This disconnectivity has been estimated to vastly reduce economic growth and significantly raise the level of unemployment of Palestinians (World Bank). Hence, West Bank Palestinian standards of living are considerably lower than they could be if the settlements were located in one continuous block. However, this assessment is based on the assumption that the West Bank would be well governed and organised. There is the possibility that the West Bank could become like Gaza; discussed later in this post. The problems of fragmentation has its roots in the methodology applied to early partition plans; also discussed later in this post.
Israeli authorities have aggravated the situation by enabling the increase in the number of Israeli settlements on the West Bank. This has been accompanied by more policing and greater requirements for security (Britannica). West Bank Palestinians have legitimate reasons for grievance regarding the actions of the Israeli authorities. However, if the threat of violence were not as high, there would be less reason for the security measures that have been put in place. West Bank Palestinian support for Hamas is a strong indication of the security risk that they pose; discussed later in this post. Palestinians should also blame their own Government for their lack of cooperation in regards to improving their circumstances. Many deals have been brokered that could have greatly improved the West Bank’s circumstances (BESA).
Gaza and Hamas
Palestinians in the Gaza Strip face a different problem. Their biggest problem is from within. Hamas has full control over the Gaza Strip. They do not act in the best interests of the Palestinian people. For example, in the 2012, Hamas killed 160 Palestinian children during the construction of their terror tunnels (Tablet).
Hamas are focused on the destruction of Israel. Sadly, despite their heinous ambitions, it appears they have significant support from both Gazan and West Bank Palestinians. See Figure 1 below.
Figure 1: Palestinian Support for 7th October and various organisations.
Sources: Arab World for Research and Development and Dr. Eli David
This is not just apparent from polls but also through actions. For example, Gilad Erdan (Israel Ambassador to the United Nations) posted a short clip of Gazan Palestinians watching an outdoor public screening of the atrocities committed by Hamas on 7th October. Another, more frequently shared example are the scenes of the body of the girl, Shani Louk, taken from the Supernova Music Festival being paraded in the streets of Gaza (Dion). Yet another example is the Hamas terrorist who called his family to celebrate killing Jews. He bragged about how many he had killed and his parents were celebrating with him (New York Post).
Hamas have done a very good job of brainwashing the Gazan Palestinians. They begin this brainwashing through their education. Palestinian children are taught from a very young age to hate Jews. They are even taught that it is acceptable to sacrifice their own lives to kill Jews. This would make them martyrs (Why Evolution is True).
Some of these children grow up to become fighters/terrorists for Hamas and many of them pass their hatred onto their children. Ultimately, hatred on one side will translate into hatred on the other side. For example, since 7th October, there has been an in increase in violence from Israeli settlers towards Palestinians on the West Bank (The Intercept). This leads to a cycle of never ending hatred and violence.
Children in western countries are also being brainwashed through their education systems but in a different way; briefly discussed in Part 3 and to be revisited in Part 5.
Mosab Hassan Yousef is the son of Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a co-founder of Hamas. Mosab Hassan Yousef has spoken out strongly against Hamas and their methods of indoctrination. He has appeared on various media, He even spoke at the United Nations regarding the actions of Hamas and their intentions. In 2010, he authored the book Son of Hamas in which he describes his experience of the inner workings of Hamas.
How Bad is Gaza?
In western media, the Gaza Strip has been repeatedly referred to as an open-air prison. Borders exist between Gaza and Israel as well as Egypt. These borders serve the purpose of security. They are justified to mitigate the potential threat of Hamas to Israel and possibly Egypt. The borders do not prevent all Gazans from leaving. Israel issues work permits to Gazans; 15,500 work permits were issued in 2022 (AP News). I could not find any data on the number of work permits Egypt has offered Gazans.
Gazans can also migrate to other countries if they meet their visa requirements. Net migration from Gaza is -3.8 migrants/1,000 population (CIA World Fact Book). Gazan mobility is likely to limited by economic factors. This is the same for all countries. Hamas may also play a role in limiting residents’ mobility. Calling Gaza an open-air prison seems like an exaggeration.
The Mail Online published an article revealing Gaza to be a far pleasanter place than typically portrayed by most media. They had markets, picturesque beaches and parks, modern shopping centres, hotels and restaurants. This war has put all of this at risk. See pictures below.
Source: Mail Online
To add a little more perspective, we could also compare the quality of life of Gazans with those of Indigenous Australians living in the Northern Territories. The environment is completely different but I use this comparison because Australia is a developed western country with communities of indigenous people.
Table 1: Comparison between Gazans and Indigenous Australians Indicators of Standard of Living
| Statistics | Gazans | Indigenous Australians (NT) |
|---|---|---|
| Male Life Expectancy (yrs) | 73 | 65.6 |
| Female Life Expectancy (yrs) | 76.8 | 69.4 |
| Monthly Income (Median) USD | 1510 | 1228 |
| Unemployment Rate | 24% | 27% |
| Illiteracy | 3% | 46% |
| Cancer rate per 100,000 | 32.7 | 500 |
| Long-Term Illness | No Data | 32% |
| Suicide (% All Deaths) | No Data | 6% |
| Suicides per 100,000 population | No Data | 29.9 |
| Mental Health Problems | 40% | 24% |
| Food Security | 64% | 43% |
Sources for Gaza:
Aljazeera
Borgen Project
National library of Medicine
Salary Explorer
Trading Economics
Wikipedia
Sources for Indigenous Australians Northern Territory:
ABS
ABS, Census
Australian Institute of Health and Welfare
Australian Institute of Health and Welfare
Australian Institute of Health and Welfare Reports
Australian Institute of Health and Welfare Reports
Borgen Project
Note: Plenty of articles point out the high suicide rate in Gaza but none includes data that can be used for comparison. Northern Territory Indigenous Australians would have the fifth highest suicide rate in the world if compared with other countries.
The above statistics indicate that an average Gazan’s quality of life is likely to be better than that of an average Indigenous Australian living in the Northern Territory. This does not indicate Gazans have a high standard of living but the outrage over it is disproportionate compared to another group of people living in a developed western country, who we would expect to have a higher standard of living.
More than just Hamas
The Israeli Government have pledged to destroy Hamas. This might be an impossible feat. Hamas ideology is embedded in many Gazan Palestinians. Even if all current Hamas fighters are killed, new ones will join. They come from today’s brainwashed children or from groups infiltrating Gaza. Many of the Hamas’ highest ranking leaders are not located in Gaza. Many are located in Qatar and others are living in other parts of the world. If Hamas are to be completed defeated, they need to be defeated from within. Gazan Palestinians need to be willing and able to dispose of them. At this point, it appears unlikely to happen.
Middle Eastern countries hatred is not purely reserved for Jews. Many of them also hate Christians and western society.
Figure 2: Opinions of Religions in a sample of Predominantly Muslim Countries
Source: Pew Research Center
A century ago, in the Middle East and North Africa, the population of Christians used to be about 20%. It is now less than 4%. They have experienced extreme persecution and even genocide (The Guardian).
Hamas are not an isolated terrorist group. They were created by the Muslim Brotherhood (The Avalon Project). The Muslim Brotherhood support radical Islamic-based ideology. They have a presence across the Middle East, North Africa, and even Europe. Leaders from Qatar, Turkey and sometimes Iran as well as non-state organisations such as the Syrian Opposition and the Al-Nusra Front support and ally with the Muslim Brotherhood (Wikipedia).
Arguably, until their relationship soared over recent decades, the biggest sponsor of the Muslim Brotherhood was the Saudi Royal Family (Fikra Forum). The Muslim Brotherhood have been involved in attempts to bring down Governments in countries such as Syria and Egypt. They are anti-communism and claim to be anti-imperialism (Eric Draitser). The Muslim Brotherhood even had a working relationship with UK and US Government agencies, which may continue to this day (Mother Jones). We could argue that they are a tool for the establishment.
Right to the Land
For many, the essence of the conflict between Israel and Palestine is land. Who should control what land and how much land should either side control. Despite the long history the Jews have to the Levant Region, Israeli Jews are considered the outsiders trying to take away land from the indigenous Levantines.
Over the thousands of years, people from this region have been conquered, killed, converted to other religions, taken away as slaves, forcibly displaced, etc... The ancestors of the people who inhabited the ancient Kingdom of Israel (Modern day Israel, Jordan, and part of Lebanon) are spread out around the world. Very few, if any, people have 100% Levantine lineage. Palestinians have some Levant ancestry but they also have ancestry linking them to Arab tribes from the Arab Peninsula (Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs). In the 20th century, people of Jewish faith migrated to Israel from a wide variety of places. See Figure 3 below.
Figure 3: Migration of Jews to Israel
Source: Wikipedia
Note: In the 1990s a large percentage of migrants to Israel came from the former Soviet Union, see Part 1 for explanation.
At the end 19th century, the percentage of Jewish people residing in the Palestine Region was very small (less than 5%). From this perspective, they appear to be outsiders. Jewish people have lived outside the Palestine Region for centuries. During this time, due to interracial marriages and conversions to Judaism, people of Jewish faith have become racially diverse (Wikipedia, RAC and many other sources). See the map below for a better idea.
Figure 4: Jews Around the World
Source: Wikipedia
Based on recent rapid migration and looser hereditary connection to the region, modern day Jewish Israelis can be easily perceived as the outsiders. However, modern Jewish people, like the original Levant people, have faced extensive persecution. This persecution has been the main reason Jewish people have needed to relocate. The creation of a Jewish State is a possible solution. The creation of a Jewish State in the approximate location of the Kingdom of Israel has some logic to it. The people are connected to this region by both religion and culture.
The biggest problem with the location of Israel is that it is surrounded by predominantly Muslim countries. The Governments and the leaders of these countries despise Jewish people. Sadly, the people from these countries have been raised to share these sentiments. Jews used to live across the Middle East. Between the late 1940’s and early 1970’s almost 1 million Jews were forced out of their countries. In doing so, they were forced to leave behind their assets and their homes (World Jewish Congress).
History of Tensions Beyond just Israel and Palestine
Tensions between Muslims and Jews dates back to the creation of Islam (Unpacked). Arguably, the problems between Israelis and Palestinians are magnified by their history (faith, culture, race, etc.) as well as manipulation of religious ideology. Throughout much of history, Jews living in the Middle East have lived under Muslim rule. There have been periods of harmony but often the Muslim leadership become the oppressors. This often results in vast numbers of Jews being displaced. A recent example would be the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran (Wikipedia).
Mistakes from the Start
The creation of Israel added to the natural tensions between Muslims and Jews. Arab Muslims have consistently opposed the presence of a Jewish State in the Middle East. The creation of Israel was not just contentious but also badly mismanaged. I believe the early decisions are largely responsible for the extent of the tensions between Israel and its neighbours.
Prior to the Great War (before 1914), a large part of the Levant Region was under the Ottoman Empire. This included modern day, Israel, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Jordan. After the Great War, control of these territories of the former Ottoman Empire were divided between Britain, France and eventually Saudi Arabia (Wikipedia). The territories Britain controlled were known as the British Mandate (modern day Israel, Palestine, Jordan, and southern Iraq). Part of that was the Mandate of Palestine, which consisted of Mandatory Palestine and Transjordan (granted independence in 1946) (Wikipedia).
Figure 5: Levant Region (Modern Day vs. Ottoman Empire)
Source: Wikipedia
The mandate required Britain to put into effect the Balfour Declaration's ‘national home for the Jewish people’ alongside the Palestinian Arabs. The Balfour Declaration was signed in 1917. Therefore, the reference to Palestine would have included the land designated to Transjordan, which was created in 1921 (Jewish Virtual Library). The 1919 proposal at the Paris Peace Conference confirms this intention, see Figure 6 (Wikipedia).
Arguably, the creation of Transjordan could have served as the division in land for the Jewish people and the Palestinian Arabs. The land west of the River Jordan could have become Israel (a compromise to the 1919 proposal). However, the negotiation process did not conclude, as the British wanted the approval of the Arab nations (Jewish Virtual Library).
In 1937, the Peel Commission, proposed the division of Mandatory Palestine into a Jewish State and an Arab State; the Arab State would merge with Transjordan (a similar plan, the Bernadotte Truce Plan, was revisited during the 1948 war). This division of land was very unfavourable to the Jewish settlers and still did not satisfy the Arab settlers or neighbouring countries. Eventually, Britain passed the responsibility of dividing land to the United Nations (Jewish Virtual Library).
In 1947, the United Nations proposed and approved a partition plan for Mandatory Palestine (Resolution 181). The divide was incredibly messy as it was based around the location of Jewish towns and villages, which spread across Mandatory Palestine. Despite appearing impractical, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13 in favour of it (Wikipedia). Muslim countries strongly objected to the plan. The British Representative to the UN abstained from voting in fear of upsetting the Arab nations.
Figure 6: Maps of Mandate of Palestine, 1919 Paris Peace Conference, Peel Commission and Proposed UN Partitions
Sources: Various, refer to text
It was determined the Mandate would end on 14th May 1948. Britain pulled out without a formal transition period or any plans for governance to be implemented (Wikipedia). On 15th May 1948, day after Israel was declared an independent state, war broke out between Israel and its Arab neighbours. The war continued until early 1949, when Israel signed separate armistices with Egypt, Lebanon, Transjordan, and Syria. Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip and Transjordan occupied most of the West Bank that the United Nations had proposed to allocate to the Arab Palestinian State (Wikipedia). At the end of the war, Israel had obtained more territory than was proposed by the United Nations and the UN intended Arab Palestinian State did not come into existence. See maps below.
Figure 7: UN Proposed Map vs. Map after the War
Source: BBC
These new borders remained in place until 1967. During that period, tensions ran high with neighbouring countries such as Egypt, which closed the Suez Canal to Israeli shipping. This eventually led to the 1956 war. After this war, tensions remained high. This led to the 1967 war (Six Day War), which resulted in changes to the borders. Both Gaza and the West Bank were returned to Israel. Areas designated to Palestinians were reduced after these conflicts. This was argued to have resulted in the displacement of Palestinians (Wikipedia). However, many of the Palestinians who fled the West Bank had Jordanian citizenship. They resettled in other parts of Jordan to flee the war (Jewish Virtual Library).
Despite the tension with neighbouring countries, prior to 1967, there was relative peace between Israel and the Palestinians. We can measure this by the relatively few terrorist attacks on Israel. For example, between 1960 and 1965, there was only one reported terrorist attack. This attack caused the injury of one person and nobody was killed (Johnston’s Archive). In 1968, more people were killed or injured from terrorist attacks than the previous ten years combined (Johnston’s Archive). Ever since, violence has remained high. A two state solution has been repeatedly attempted. It has repeatedly failed.
How to Fix the Problems?
The events of 7th October have ruined any possibility that a two state solution will ever be viable. Therefore, something else needs to take its place. There are many possible approaches. However, none of them are likely to be acceptable to all parties. Below are two are two such possible solutions.
One State Solution
I believe a one state (unitary state) solution would also fail. Eventually, the Palestinian and other Muslim populations would exceed the Jewish population. The Palestinian population increases at a faster rate than the Israeli population. This is because they have consistently higher birth rates. Despite net emigration, the population of Palestine has increased by 150% in the past 30 years. The population of Israel has also substantially increased but not to the extent of Palestine’s (approximately doubled during that time). See Figures 8 and 9 below.
Figure 8: Palestine Population Growth
Source: World Data
Figure 9: Israel Population Growth
Source: World Data
As of 2022, the Palestine Territories and Israel were determined to have an annual natural population increase (based on births and deaths) of 2.5% and 1.4% respectively (PRB). Not all of Israel’s growth has been from the Jewish population. Approximately, 75% of Israeli’s are Jewish (World Data).
A one state solution could be used to enable mass migration from other Muslim countries. For example, millions of Jordanians claiming to have Palestinian ancestry could flood Israel. The Muslims would use their majority to form Government. Israel would likely be renamed Palestine and become another Muslim State.
Quasi Three State Solution
The two state solution has failed and the one state solution would erode the viability of Israel as a Jewish homeland. Another option is a three state solution. Palestine more closely resembles two states than one (Gaza and West Bank). After Hamas is defeated, there would be a power vacuum. Israel would not be able to fill that vacuum. If left to the Gazans, that vacuum would be filled by another terrorist group. The most logical and convenient approach would be to hand Gaza over to Egypt. Egypt would decide if Gaza could eventually self-govern. A continuous block of the West Bank could be handed over to Jordan. Jordan would then determine if the West Bank could become an independent state.
This solution is problematic, as it requires agreement from both Egypt and Jordan. Jordan might be persuaded but Egypt appears hostile to Gaza and would see them as a burden, threat, or both (The Atlantic). Egypt clearly demonstrate this with their stance towards taking Gazan refugees. Palestinians would also strongly oppose losing their statehood even if that was only temporary. The international community would also not support such a suggestion.
Final Thoughts
The purpose of this part of the series is to add context to the Israel and Hamas war. One of the reasons people have responded so negatively towards Israel is because of the perception of Israel being the oppressor and Palestine the victim. In reality, it is far more complex. This post is based on my perceptions of the information I have explored in a relatively short time. Therefore, it is far from expert analysis. However, the post discusses certain facts and perspectives most people are not fully aware of or do not completely appreciate.
In the final part of this series, I discuss the possible outcomes of this war and broader implications. I also discuss conspiracy theories and hypotheses. I explain why I believe many people are falling into the same traps.
More posts
I have several collection of posts. I have organised these collections based on content and purpose.
The first collection contains six collection posts created before PeakD had the collection feature. Four of these posts relate to the core of my content, one of them contains all my Actifit Posts, and one of them contains my video course ‘Economics is Everyone’.
The second collection consists of the posts that I consider define my channel. These posts are significant in terms of content as well as how they contribute to the growth of the channel. These posts reveal the most about what I believe in.
The third and fourth collection is what I call my ‘Freedom-base Economics living book’. They contain all the posts that support my ideas about the value and power of freedom. Some of these posts explain what we can achieve with freedom and what we need to utilise it. Some of them explain how we are deprived of freedom and how we often give up freedom for security and comfort. The third collection concludes with possible scenarios depending on what we (society) choose to do.
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A good attempt at an unbiased analysis of a difficult topic.
However one critically important thing that you miss is the Jewish People's deep historical, cultural and religious connection to the Land of Israel.
Israel is not primarily a place to escape persecution - if that was the objective Australia's Kimberly region would have been a much better location for the Jewish State.
Whether modern Jews are genetically strongly or weakly related to ancient Jews is far less important than that Jewish religious tradition has called for the return to the Land of Israel as its most important commandment from the time when Jews were first expelled by Babylonians 2600 years ago.
For 1900 years in exile, Jews all around the world prayed many times a day for the restoration of Jewish sovereignty in the land of Israel and Jerusalem.
That is why only The Land of Israel was acceptable as a location for a Jewish State to the vast majority of Jews (although other options were considered).
Now, 75 years after the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty, Israel is a nation of 10 million with by far the highest fertility of any civilised country, one of the strongest economies, the most cohesive society and the strongest military in the world (stronger than the US and Russia who are demonstrably completely incapable of achieving what the IDF has in Gaza in the last 6 weeks).
Israel is an ancient power that is rising to ascendancy in a world of dying nations (Western, Eastern and Islamic) with catastrophically low fertility. The powers of today (USA, China, Japan, Russia and the EU) are all withering away like Babylon, Persia, the Greeks, Romans, Ottomans before them.
Oct 7 killed off "The Two State Solution" in the minds of the vast majority of Israelis. There will never be a "Palestinian State" in the Land of Israel.
Israel will utterly crush its enemies to prevent Oct 7 ever happening again and there is nothing any other country, including the US, can do about it.
The perception of the world and who can claim the title of victim is utterly irrelevant to the situation on the ground.
This war is about civilisation fighting the most evil barbarians that have ever existed.
Victimology is for losers.
It has been a challenging topic to research and then understand. I appreciate your comment. The Jews have the strongest religious and historical connection to the land of Israel. This is supported by verses found in both the Bible and the Qaran.
For an outsider, it is difficult to fully appreciate how people might connect with a place based on faith.
What adds even more confusion is the position of the anti-Zionist Jews. Many of them being Orthodox. They claim Israel can only be regained miraculously. I don't understand what that would involve or the extent of this belief or interpretation.
The website Jewish Virtual Library does shed some light on this matter.
There is also the issue of the Muslims connection to Jerusalem. Considering they have Mecca, it is hard to image it would have as much significance. I am a little ignorant to their position.
It's not just about faith. It's about history as well. Let's not forget that non-Jews in the land were never forced out of their land. They could live next to Jews. But they didn't like Jewish authority over the land. They wanted another Islamic state, as if the other 20+ Islamic states in the world weren't enough for them.
The anti-Zionist Jews are a fringe. And how are they going to explain their own Bible which says if God scatters, no one can gather. When King Cyrus helped the Jews to go back into the land based on their Zionist request, about 2500 years ago, where was the miracle in that? How was that any different from what happened in 1948? And yet the Jewish Bible says it was God who did that and Cyrus was merely God's servant, doing the will of God.
Muslims have Mecca as you said and Islam was founded in Arabia. Muhammad spent most of his life, if not all of it in Arabia. Not in the land of Israel. Furthermore, historically speaking Muhammed came about ~2000 years after Moses. If we really want to respect the order of history, we again have to give the Jewish people authority over that land, not the Muslims.
Thanks for your informative comment. In regards to 1948. The partition plan proposed by the United Nations but never implemented would have been unworkable. Israel would have been divided into 3 slivers of land each surrounded by long borders with the proposed Arab state/s and Jerusalem would have been isolated. See below.
Considering Israel's location and neighbours, strong border protection and control is essential. This proposed state is almost impossible to defend.
I would argue that it was the 1948 war that enabled Israel to have greater security and ultimately a viable state not the UN. The Arab nations attack on Israel was a massive miscalculation.
Either way, whether it was the UN or the war or a combination, bottom line is that in the Jewish Bible, God takes responsibility for every war including the wars against Israel that leads to the scattering of Jews around the world. Hence, anti-Zionist Jews are a fringe because they really don't have an argument from the Bible whatsoever and if they do, it's weak asf. I'm neither a Jew myself nor an Israeli. I'm probably still biased though because of my Christian faith and its Jewish roots. However, I was not raised Christian. I was actually raised Muslim and was constantly taught to hate Israel.
There are deep problems with all of your assertions. Once Israelis purchased feudal titles of dubious legitimacy from former Ottoman aristocrats, they did kick Palestinians from their homes and family farms, refused to employ them, and began a process of apartheid.
They didn't necessarily want an Islamic state, they wanted independence after being ruled by foreign powers for centuries. The Arabs say Palestinians aren't Arab enough. They are descended from a variety of Semitic people including ancient Israelites.
If you want to respect history, you can't just ignore people who lived there for literally thousands of years.
So you're telling me the people who have descended from ancient Israelites want to change the name of that land to Palestine? A name that was initially given to the land by the Romans in order to humiliate the Jews? Do you know the root of Palestine? It's literally the Philistines in the Bible, spelled and pronounced differently. In Arabic, it's the same pronunciation and spell. They were the most infamous enemies of the Jews from day 1 and they were actually completely defeated about ~2500 ago so bad they disappeared from history for a very long time. You can't find a single reference to them in any writings at the time of Jesus.
Literally everything you wrote is irrelevant to my point.
No it's not. It shows how silly your claim is. Palestine or Palestinian was never a thing before Israel. That's a fact. The only Palestine or Palestinian that was a thing before Israel is the ancient Philistine and most scholars agree they became extinct ~2500 years ago. Foreigners who have moved into the land of Israel are now claiming to be the ancient Philistines in spite of speaking a totally different language, and having a totally different religion and culture. And you say oh they're multicultural, some of them are even descendents of the Israelites but they don't like the name of their descendents, they prefer the name of their ancient enemies. Yeah right.
None of that has any bearing on the merits of the claims of people who lived in the region regardless of its name from the Roman era through the Ottoman era. Your red herring remains irrelevant.
People lived in the region regardless of its name. Some were nomadic. Some were agrarian. Some were urban. Some were Christian. Some were Jewish. Most were Muslim. And they were almost all displaced because generations of feudal plunder had transferred de jure ownership to an Ottoman-influenced political class. None of that was just. But it compounded injustice when Jewish settlers bought these stolen titles and forced people off their lands starting even before WW2. That, not some racial or religious flaw, sows the seeds of hate.
The name of the region still has zero bearing on historical reality.
Again. Nobody was forced out of their homes or land. You're probably referring to those who left their homes/land to join the Arabs to fight Israel and then when they lost the war, Israel didn't let them in. The ones who didn't leave their homes/land to join Arabs to kill the Jews are still in Israel living in their homes/land without any problem. Also, guess what? Many Jews were forced out of Arab nations in the same year and lost their homes/lands without even joining Israel to fight the Arabs. You also need to differentiate between Gaza and the West bank and Israel. Because if you're referring to the perhaps 1% or less Jewish settlers in these regions, you still have to understand that is not part of Israel. You also need to understand that if Arabs didn't fight Israel in 1948, none of this would have had happened and nobody would've been displaced. So yes it has ultimately been about what the name of the land will be and what sort of government will be in power. It's been a war between Islamists and Zionists. The war was started by Islamists not Zionists. And wars are ugly, they lead to people being displaced. They also lead to people getting injured and dying. So what? Blame the ones who started the war which would be Muslims not Jews. Unlike Muslims, Jews came back into their land and shaped a government with political negotiations, not with war. That's why they have the support of most nations except Arab/Muslim nations who rejected the UN vote and started the war.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Arabs expelling Jews does not justify Jews expelling Palestinians. Some of the Jewish settlers did certainly expel Palestinians. How much do you really know about Israel's conflicts, 1948 or otherwise? Note I intend to differentiate between Israel as a government and the Jews as a people, because collectivist blame is dumb and governments do not represent the people as a whole.
I never said two wrongs make a right. Where did I say that? Read again.
Again. Nobody was initially forced out of their homes/lands. The displacements happened after the war which was started by six Arab nations. Displacement is actually not that bad in wars, what's worse is permanent injury and death. Again. Blame those who started the war. Not those who defended themselves. If you have an ounce of humanity. This is not a complicated issue. This is not like ~3000 years ago when Jews attacked first because their god commanded them. This was a completely peaceful return with political negotiations which was rejected by six bullies, six Arab Islamist nations, who started an ugly war, just like Hamas did in October 7th, and continue to play the victim card.
It's good to finally see what the person who's been downvoting my posts is like, but also disappointing. It also makes sense why my series was getting downvoted as it exactly responds to these types of myths.
It's Forrest Gump history. "And then for no reason at all, the Arabs, Egyptians, Persians, and Palestinians decided to hate the Jews and there was a war." Reality is much less black-and-white, and collectivist/nationalist analysis loses all nuance.
I understand that coming from a Christian background it may be hard to understand how important a connection to land is to some other religions, particularly Judaism (also Aboriginal Australians).
But it is absolutely fundamental, as important as belief in Jesus's death and resurrection is to Christians.
Indeed the entire Jewish Bible both religiously and historically revolves around God's promises of land to Abraham and then Moses.
The position of the tiny minority of anti-Zionist Jews is not actually inconsistent with the fundamental importance of The Land of Israel to the Jewish People. They just disagree on whether their can be any secular hand in implementation, not on Divine Promise or the goal.
The Muslims have Mecca and Medina and Jerusalem is clearly a distant third place in importance (having only been mentioned in a dream of Muhammed) and coming historically over 2000 years after the Jewish King David established Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish People.
Christians should know better because more than half their Bible is the same Jewish Bible or Tanakh. I'm a Christian myself and funny enough I was actually raised Muslim. I think this is ultimately a spiritual battle. You could call it a religious war. Either way, it's not just over a piece of land. It's two religions (Judaism and Islam) clashing over opposing claims attributed to God and as a Christian, I believe God will take the side of Israel, in order to expose the lies of Islam.
With the look of things, I am seeing the war between Isreal and Hama's continue for so long if not well stopped
All of above, I would like to say that this is the issue of Land that going on between Israel and the Hamas.
This topic is very difficult to commented because peoples have different opinions towards such a worst situation of War.
Israel has lost humanity. Killing women and childrens shows Israel Barbarian attitude towards humanity.
In war, they should focus to get their aims without harming their next generations as childrens and women are unable to safe themselves from their bombardment and attacks on a weak personalities is not showing their bravery..
Whole World is standing against Israel , their un human attitude towards Gazans.
They have a mission to focus their next generations so they can't stand after the War but Gazans and Hamas will stand and will save their identities soon.
I also think that other Governments should pay attention towards them and this issue should be solved quickly to avoid further loses.
I think whole world has lost humanity because according to my opinion the murder of a human is the murder of all humanity.
Your inability to distinguish between the deliberate murder, rape and brutalisation of Jewish civilians by Hamas and the death of Gazan civilians by IDF fire on military targets because Hamas uses them as shields shows you have no logic or moral compass.
Hamas, not Israel, is legally and morally responsible for ALL civilian deaths in this conflict.
You don't even understand what the words "humanity" or "murder" even mean.
Not all killing is murder.
A policeman who accidentally kills a hostage held as a sheild in front of a criminal is not a murderer.
A soldier killing another soldier or a civilian being used as a shield for a military target is not murder.
Humanity does not mean surrendering to terrorists or criminals because they use civilians and hostages as shields. That is the path to end civilisation and humanity as it would empower terrorists and criminals everywhere and do the same.
We should all want peace. Unfortunately, it is not always simple. Hamas is a terrorist organisation that does not value human life. They are happy to let their own people die to achieve their goals. More deaths serve their propaganda purpose. Much of the media highlight this loss of life and promote Hamas propaganda.
Israel have tried to guide the civilian populations to the safest areas in Gaza. The UN have been very slow at reaching these areas. Aid trucks have been allowed in to reach these people but Hamas have stolen some of this aid. Gazans are experiencing shortages but this has more to do with Hamas using these resources such as fuel and electricity to continue their rocket attacks into Israel and sometimes on their own people.
Israel's efforts to help Gazan civilians is compromising their own operations. They are giving away information that Hamas can use against the IDF. This prolongs the war and will result in even more loss of life. The UN are attempting to hold Israel to standards they have never done with the US or even Russia.
The best way forward for peace is the defeat of Hamas. In the long run, this is for the benefit of both Israelis and Palestinians.
As I mentioned that its a very difficult topic and can't convey our thought to others that how media is playing nagetive role and providing false informations. No one knows who is right and who is wrong but we want peace so lose of lives could be avoided. Hope So in a best way, they end up the war.
@spectrumecons I would suggest some more reading on Revisionist Zionism - you can start with Herzl, see so that flows to Ze'ev Jabotinsky and the formation of Irgun and the Stern Gang. Zionist Terrorists conducted a terror campaign against not only Arabs in Mandatory Palestine, but against the British soldiers overseeing it. One of the leaders of the Irgun, Menachem Begin went on to become Prime Minister having formed the Herut party. Irgun bombed one of the British Officer's clubs in Palestine. The Stern Gang was active in several terroristic events. Netenyahu's father worked with Jabotinsky, and published a paper that the British shut down. There is a line extending from Herut to the modern day Likud party.
When I have the opportunity I'll right up more of this but I'm still filling in some gaps and it would be a disservice to the topic to rush through it.
Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't know about any of this. I will definitely look into it.