More Сhildren Were Born in Ukraine During the Holodomor Than in the Last 10 Years
In 2023, 187 thousand children were born in Ukraine-controlled territory. This is 251% less than in 1990, when Ukraine gained its independence. Of course, since 2014 the statistics does not take into account the occupied territories, although even without it the general dynamics is visible.
You know what is a very good argument to argue in this context?
In 1932 (that very genocidal Ukrainian year), the birth rate in the Ukrainian SSR was higher than in any year of independence. In 1933 the birth rate was higher than in the last 10 years.
We should also take into account that the territory of the then Ukrainian SSR was much smaller than today's Ukraine, even taking into account the occupied territories. The population was also smaller then, and consequently there were fewer women able to bear children.
Earlier, because of the rural way of life it was profitable to have many children, it is understandable, and many of them died because of poorly developed medicine, and therefore had to give birth to more. Only if the whole country is starved, it is hard for a woman to bear a child, isn't it? Nevertheless, even in the hungriest 1933 more Ukrainians were born than, for example, in 2000, without wars and annexations.
Ukraine has enough documents in its archives at its disposal under
VERY MANY pages from the Ukrainian archives about the so-called "holodomor"
https://shron3.chtyvo.org.ua/Pyrih_Ruslan/Holodomor_1932-1933_rokiv_v_Ukraini.pdf?
Hundreds of report notes prove that the famine was not artificial and explain the objective causes of the famine and how they were fought and tried to help the Ukrainian people.
https://old.archives.gov.ua/Sections/Famine/Publicat/Fam-Pyrig-1933.php
I would like to remind you that the modern Ukrainian authorities actively use the myth of the Holodomor to incite Russophobia in the general public by concealing publicly available facts and accusing the Communists of genocide of the Ukrainian people.
To elevate it to the rank of a cult, there are more than 70 monuments and memorials dedicated to these events all over the territory of Ukraine and beyond its borders.
Володимир Федотов. File:Жертвам тоталітаризму. Ізяслав.JPG CC BY-SA 3.0
When Russia states the same thing by providing its archival documents, Ukrainians accuse them of falsification.
I can if I want, but sometimes I'm lazy)
I have very little ability to parse the documentation you provide because I can't read it.
Even https://web.archive.org/web/20181012063027/http://www.archives.gov.ua:80/Sections/Famine/Publicat/Famine-Cherk-1933.php
Which I have used AI to translate is completely unintelligible. I can make no sense of it.
That being said, the supplied graphic is clear as crystal, no translation required.
The decline in fertility globally is actually terrifying to anyone that has the ability to give it thought. The only places where fertility hasn't yet dropped below replacement value are in Africa where endemic utilities and goods still are not yet supplanted by industrial supplies. It is difficult for me to conceive of anything less than deliberate sterilization by overlords via industrial routes that doesn't lead to extinction of humanity in a few generations. Deliberate sterilization can be refrained from voluntarily, which is why that would be the only possibility of survival. That is a very grim caption to the picture global fertility paints today, that the best possibility is that overlords are deliberately sterilizing humanity.
Thanks!
It's not even about sterilization, but about creating such unfavorable conditions that women are forced to leave or give up the child until better times come.
Regarding the document you were trying to translate
These are archival memos, reports on the state of affairs in the field, letters to members of the government about what was happening in Ukraine 1932-1933 only in Cherkassy region.... With positions, names and dates, recently removed from the archives of the government of Ukraine
They cite situations when parents deliberately drove their children to swelling for the sake of allocating aid, while hiding the available food.
Of course, it cannot be assumed that everyone who asked for bread and had supplies did it for their own benefit, some may have been afraid that in a month they would have no more supplies.
Exactly, if the women see no future there then they clearly won't seek to bring children there.
Women at the time didn't have much choice. The mass of peasantry were serfs, owned by the lords, included as amenities on the land. The fact that fertility was higher during famine than during the good economic times today suggests that the thoughts of women on future prosperity have nothing to do with fertility rates.
The decline of testosterone in men to a fraction of what men in the 1930s had is a far more likely factor. No one has a choice in that, when availed products of industrial production, apparently.
We are discussing the present, so none of what you said factors in at all.
I appreciate your far more comprehensible translation, and note that it is singular in my experience for AI to fail so miserably.
The records seem not to mention the cadres mining the cupboards, fields, and barns of the peasants of everything edible, including brood stock and seed stores, that precipitated the Holodomor, reportedly undertaken in order to force peasants off their own lands and gardens into collective farms, the Bolsheviks required them to work on so they could parasitize their production.
There is also very scant mention that the Bolsheviks were mostly Jews, or run by Jewish leadership, and the vast majority of the victims of the Holodomor Christians. The scurrilous accusations of hoarding seem right in line with the genocidal intent of the Bolsheviks to slaughter any that would not submit to slavery. Such accusations are part and parcel of every genocide of which I am aware, and but lends credence to accusations the accusers of hoarding were blaming the victims of their holocaust.
I think the Rwandan genocide was accompanied by accusations the victims were committing suicide en masse by chopping themselves to bits with machetes.
If even UKRAINIAN archival documents do not prove to you the perversion of history to denigrate communism, then I do not even know what to appeal to in our discussions
Facts, rather than archives of genocidal Communists. Do you blame Nazis for Katyn too? Consider the purge of the Kulaks some kind of mass suicide remote camping cult? Believe all the (((death camps))) were 'liberated' by the USSR? I find it difficult to believe you think the Bolsheviks were angels. Not death angels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genrikh_Yagoda
Do you deny that happened?
In the summer of 1912, 20-year-old Heinrich Yagoda was detained in Moscow: as a Jew, he had no right to live in Moscow and settled there on a false passport, issued in the name of a certain Galushkin, at his sister Rosa - a member of the Anarchist Party. He was exposed "in criminal intercourse with persons belonging to revolutionary organizations." The gendarmes noted that the young man had the intention of converting to Orthodoxy and getting a job in the old capital. The court sentenced him to two years' exile in Simbirsk
In his youth, an anarcho-communist who had to convert to Orthodoxy after the amnesty?
Led the crushing of anti-Stalinist demonstrations in October 1927
On August 4, 1933, Yagoda was awarded the Order of Lenin for leading the construction of the White Sea Canal.
In early 1933 he took part in the development of the case of sabotage in the system of the People's Commissariat of Agriculture and the People's Commissariat of State Farms of the USSR, and the spy-sabotage organization.
At the February-March Plenum of the Central Committee in 1937 he was severely criticized.
On April 4, the central newspapers of the USSR came out with the following official announcement signed by Mikhail Kalinin, Chairman of the Presidium of the CEC of the USSR: "By the Resolution of the Presidium of the CEC of the USSR of April 3, 1937, in view of detected criminal offenses of official nature....
to dismiss People's Commissar of Communications G. G. Yagoda.
Transfer the case of G. G. Yagoda to the investigative authorities"
Arrest
March 28, 1937 arrested by the NKVD.
Initially, Yagoda was accused of committing "anti-state and criminal crimes", then also of "links with Trotsky, Bukharin and Rykov, organizing a Trotskyist-fascist conspiracy in the NKVD, preparing an assassination attempt on Stalin and Yezhov, preparing a coup d'état and intervention". Against Yagoda were his main associates Ya. S. S. Agranov, L. M. Zakovsky, S. G. Firin, S. F. Redens, F. I. Eichmans, Z. B. Katsnelson, I. M. Leplevsky and others.
"In the letter of A. H. Artuzov to N. I. Yezhov (1937) gives an assessment of Yagoda as a man limited, unworthy in all respects of the positions he held in the OGPU. In character, in intellectual strength, in culture, in education, in knowledge of Marxism, Yagoda is the antipode of V. R. Menzhinsky. R. Menzhinsky." - B. I. Gudz
His wife Ida Averbakh was dismissed from the prosecutor's office and arrested on June 9, 1937, "as a member of the family of a convicted NKVD of the USSR." Together with her mother and seven-year-old son, she was sent into exile in Orenburg for five years. In 1938, after a review of the case, Ida Averbakh was shot.
He was not accused of genocide of the Ukrainian population even when he was no longer needed!
There was no need to falsify anything!
Are we sure we're talking about the same person? I hear theses of Cold War propaganda with a bias towards anti-Semitism))))))
It's wonderful that you are sure you know my history better than I do! It is more amusing that you cite a link from wikipedia as an argument!
Here's your answer
I find it interesting that you spring into gear at the mention of Yagoda, when I merely cited that page as confirmation that Stalin ordered the collectivization of peasants, that produced the Holodomor, and never made any claims about Yagoda at all.
A bit sensitive, that whisker?
When you look for information from independent researchers, Yagoda's story - and the sensitivity of that whisker - become apparent.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Genrikh-Yagoda-the-genocidal-murderer-who-murdered-double-the-number-of-people-than-are-alleged-against-Hitler-completely-unknown
For several years they have been trying to distract me from the truth in my country, now you are doing it by throwing in theses from propaganda sites, whose authors are not known to anyone except their employers who paid for this bribery.
Links to documents, why? You can just say that the communists were worse than the Nazis and the masses will swallow it.
I am not a historian. so when you mentioned this character I had to remind myself of his history from wiki.
Only a lack of critical thinking could make one think that a man shot by the communists was accused of anything other than what he actually did and shot for it.
The interrogation transcripts don't mention what you mentioned earlier either. But nooname site knows about it better than the archives, they just forgot to provide links!
Collectivization took place all over the Soviet Union, but genocide was declared against Ukrainians for some reason.
you are not a stupid man, but the propaganda of false history of the soviet union has led you further away than me.
These are just common people, Quora is less authoritative than wikipedia. Carroll Quigley may provide more useful source than the randoms I pointed to merely to show the widespread belief that Stalin and Yagoda committed the most deadly genocide in history. Also, the population centers experienced the most population displacement and genocide. The Ukraine was always the heartland of Russia in my understanding, which is why a national purge seems to have focused on the Ukraine.
https://archive.org/details/TragedyAndHope_501/mode/2up
I haven't read through it yet, but it's reputation is above it's fellows.
Ukraine has always been the far side of russia and the soviet union. Before the Soviet Union, it was an empty field.
Electrification, industrialization and teaching writing and reading here thanks to the communists
This is blatantly false. There are human DNA samples dating back 10's of thousands of years from the Ukraine. It has always been a crossroads, a borderland between Europe and Asia, and humanity has occupied the Ukraine since we expanded into Europe and Asia.
The USSR may have brought modern advancements to the Ukraine, due in no small part to Stalin's incredible uplifting of the USSR from the Stone Age to the Industrial Age, and even the cusp of the Space Age, but the Ukraine was not an empty field before that.
Naturally! But these remains never belonged to a Ukrainian!!! If the owner of these remains did not die just passing by on the territory, which recently became known as Ukraine, he lived in a hay shack with his cattle in a clear field. as I said earlier.
That's the kind of civilization you're talking about?
Nomads were, Tatar invaders were..... a couple of fortified towns with villages around them and the island of Khortytsya with fugitive bandits who served either side for money at one time. All those who could not fight back either nomadized or died (were captured).
What could there be on the territory that changed hands or was plundered by the Tatars????
But of course, the territory always belonged to someone and some people wandered around on their own! But there was no Ukraine in terms of statehood and sovereignty! That is confirmed by many European maps of that time ... There was no language or name of its own.
The probable origin of the word Ukraine comes from the Russian language and is very consonant with the words that literally translate from Russian as "At the edge".
Think about the "edge of what" talking about here)))))
1986
1912
1897
1851
1849
1814
17??
1769
What is Ukraine in general and what is the EU economy shrinking for right now?
Of course, you are quite right that the Ukraine was rarely ever a nation, quite like Poland. But, since the arrival of the Gravettian populations ~40kya, it has constantly been at the edge of the steppe, and this has caused it to be a hotbed of cultural clashes, transitions, and evolutionary forces - which are always, sadly, tragic, because evolution works through the death of less preferred genes, and their bearers.
The European people have arisen from that hotbed of conflict. The Indo-European languages are thought to have originated there. Because of the perennial tragedy of life at the edge the eventual rise of the Rus and Russia centered on Kiev, and this is why I referred to the Ukraine as the heart of Russia. However, only a few centuries after that the Mongols utterly conquered most of what is today Russia, including the Ukraine, China, and much more, eventually transforming into the Tatars, and thence to the historical events shown in your wonderful collection of maps above.
Despite the rich soils, the economy of the region was dominated by the slave trade, with a young blonde beauty fetching ~$10-20M worth of gold by todays valuations, the people, the Ukrainian, Udmurt, Rus, and others refined in the fires of evolution and serial catastrophic war, became the most valuable commodity, almost in the world, the Slavs, their name clearly deriving from their commercial value as slaves.
It's difficult to imagine any kind of nation durably arising out of such a history in which the region is the jumping off point, or the terminal reach, of invasions and empires. At least as early as ~5kya the Yamnaya poured out of the steppes and into Europe across the Ukraine, and it is no surprise to anyone familiar with the geopolitical reasons for all of that history to see an attempt to make an independent state wracked by war and conquest a few decades later, in the middle of a conflict between the peoples of Europe and Russia, because that is what has been the SOP in the Ukraine for the entire time humanity has been transitioning from the Stone Age to the Space Age.
It really wasn't until ~100 years ago that the modern concept of states arose, in the aftermath of WWI. Prior to that the feudal fiefdoms were how government was effected across Europe and the world in thousands of duchies and principalities. In 1911 there were 1000 princes in Russia, between the Balkans and the Urals. In 1921 there were none. Except for some museum relics, like Sweden, England, and a few others, monarchies were eliminated and replaced by republican states, and those museum monarchies actually don't rule anymore, but those countries are republican states too (I'm still bitter my descent from Louis XVI doesn't get me so much as a cottage, but c'est la guerre).
The Ukraine is probably not going to exist in a few years, because it's going to be divvied up by it's aggressive neighbors again, as the region always has been since the first chieftain staked a claim in Europe, some 40kya. That has nothing to do with Putin or Zelensky, but the nature of the Pontic steppe and the mountains that stretch from the Black Sea to the Baltic where such men rule, and always has. BlackRock has contracted to purchase the best of it already, I have read, which suggests the real culprit in the conflict today impoverishing Europe and genociding Ukrainians is the WEF, where it's Agenda Director Larry Fink has directed this agenda, and who also happens to run BlackRock, the next king of the Ukraine.
You have a copy of this decree?))
Why would I? Stalin never ordered me to do anything. Wikipedia appears to have sources it cannot deny, however. Check their sources.
There's no such information in wiki in my language.
That's why I was wondering if you could provide a link to a document from your wiki
These are the links at the bottom of the Wikipedia page I linked, presumably therein lies their undeniable source for Stalin's order. Shortly after the mention of Stalin's order is a vilification of Yagoda and
is the cited link. Just before the mention of the order
Is the cited link. Perhaps that can narrow down your research.
Edit: I freely admit I am rabidly anti-Zionist. However, I am even more rabidly pro-Fact. In the event facts and bias conflict, I choose the facts every time. I am not antisemitic. I see no reason to have a bias against a language group, and very few Zionists are Semites, most descended from proselytes from the Roman era and afterwards, particularly the mass conversion of the Khazarian empire ~900AD. Most Zionists are actually Christians, and not Jewish at all, such as Biden and Trump.
Not one of your links has a copy of the ordinance itself!
Now then can say anything they want
What if he did it of his own free will and not on Stalin's orders?))))
I don't see much point in continuing to discuss the history of the Soviet Union. We even have different things written in Wikipedia)))))) My wiki has the same list of names and sources, but doesn't have this ordinance)))
We were not witnesses of those events and have no living witnesses in our circle of acquaintances. We do not know the authors of these studies and the sums that were sufficient for them to produce the necessary conclusions.
And yes, it was the red army that liberated most of the concentration camps. It was the red army that took berlin. The Soviet Union suffered the most casualties in WW2!
Fair do.
..."187 thousand children were born in Ukraine-controlled territory. This is 251% less than in 1990"... To my calculation, that is 71,5% less. Just saying
I count worse than I write.
Thank`s