Should Hive lower the 20% APR on HBD? Pros and Cons
20% Verzinsung auf einen Stablecoin klingt scammy und weckt Erinnerungen an Terra Luna. Daran hat sich nichts geändert. Jetzt ist eine neue emotionale Debatte zwischen Befürwortern und Gegnern der 20% APR auf HBD entfacht.
Man muss wissen, dass die 20% von den Hive-Stakeholdern bezahlt werden, da Hive das Collateral von HBD ist. Algorithmischer Stablecoin. Dollar-Reserven gibt es keine. Die Verzinsung ist ein Wertetransfer von Hive zu HBD.
Andererseits haben die 20% APR auch viel neues Kapital auf die Blockchain gebracht, was zumindest kurzfristig auch für Hive positiv ist. HBD funktioniert wie Fiat. Zinsen und Schulden verstärken die Zyklen von Hive, sowohl nach unten als auch nach oben.
Dazu kommt, dass die HBD Marketcap und die Schuldenquote noch überschaubar ist. Jetzt panikartig ohne Not während eines Bärenmarkts die APR zu reduzieren sei unklug und riskant. Das ist auch wieder wahr.
Andererseits kann die Schuldenquote auch schnell zum Problem werden, falls Hive 60-70% crasht, was für Kryptos nichts Ungewöhnliches ist. Und dann wäre ein Gegensteuern wahrscheinlich schon zu spät, wegen der Dynamik und weil Zinsänderungen erst zeitverzögert wirken.
Vielleicht wäre es sogar gut, die APR von HBD langsam wieder auf ein nachhaltiges Maß zu reduzieren, auch wenn das kurzfristig schmerzhaft ist, man kann damit nicht früh genug anfangen.
20% auf einen Stablecoin sind jedenfalls nicht nachhaltig.
Was denkt ihr? Sind die 20% APR scammy oder die Chance Hive Dollar und Hive zu bewerben? Soll die APR jetzt reduziert werden? Ändert ihre eure Witness-Votes abhängig, welchen Zinssatz Witnesses angeben?
Artwork by @doze
HBD Debt
Debt stats by @ausbitbank and @dalz
Pro 20% APR
20% HBD has been a Smashing Success
by @edicted
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@edicted/hive-has-officially-reached-the-desperation-phase
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@edicted/final-thoughts-20percent-hbd-has-been-a-smashing-success
Contra 20% APR
Decreasing HBD APR and Posting Rewards and Increasing the Importance of Hive Power (HP)
by @deathwing
https://peakd.com/hive-111111/@deathwing/listening-to-feedback-regarding-hbd-apr-and-posting-rewards
English
20% interest on a stablecoin sounds scammy and brings back memories of Terra Luna. Nothing has changed in this respect. Now a new emotional debate between supporters and opponents of the 20% APR on HBD is sparked.
It is important to know that the 20% is paid by Hive stakeholders, as Hive is the collateral of HBD. Algorithmic stablecoin. Dollar reserves do not exist. The interest is a transfer of value from Hive to HBD.
On the other hand, the 20% APR has also brought a lot of new capital to the blockchain, which is also positive for Hive, at least in the short term. HBD works like fiat. Interest rates and debt amplify Hive's cycles, both up and down.
Add to that the fact that the HBD market cap and debt ratio is still manageable. Reducing APR now in a panic without need during a bear market would be unwise and risky. This is also true.
On the other hand, the debt ratio can also quickly become a problem if Hive crashes 60-70%, which is nothing unusual for cryptos. And by then, countering it would probably be too late, because of the dynamics and because interest rate changes have a delayed effect.
Perhaps it would even be good to slowly reduce HBD's APR back to sustainable levels, even if that is painful in the short term, you can't start soon enough.
In any case, 20% on a stablecoin is not sustainable.
What do you guys think? Is the 20% APR scammy or an opportunity to promote Hive Dollar and Hive? Should the APR be lowered now? Do you change your Witness votes depending on what rate Witnesses signal?
Live your Secrets and Hive Prosper 🍯
xx Viki @vikisecrets
20% Zinsen ist auf jeden Fall nicht nachhaltig und sollte reduziert werden.
Nice overview.
Hive's problem is not in HBD's interest but in the growth of its user base, which is stagnant.
20% interest may not be sustainable but i still want to enjoy the 20% APR haha
I saw this argument brought up so many times without giving some "proof" of that... It's the same as when people brag about how they bring THOUSANDS of users to HIVE and we have barely a few thousand active users in TOTAL!
Back to the topic, everyone can see the amount of HBD in savings and even check exactly WHO are the people that have the most... A simple look at https://hivebuzz.me/ranking, sorted by "HBD Savings" will give that info... If you ask me, I recognize more than 70% of the Top 100 names there as "old Hivers", and most of them just converted their HP into HBD...
So, it's not that 20% brought "a lot of new capital" into the system... That was the idea, but the realization wasn't that good...
haha, agree 😂
The metrics show that so far the 20% had worked well despite the bear market, and it would be NOT good to decrease it without need. Your scenario of further 60 to 70% crashing of Hive is very unlikely. However the negative effects of decreasing the APR now are unknown but quite likely that they would happen. So why do it?
I am standing for keeping the 20% until things change.
Ah, interesting point of view. Thanks for sharing.
I prefer the status quo and we are near another bull market, so 20% is still manageable...
I think it should be just how it is
Well, I would not say that the interest should not be reduced. If that will be the best thing, so be it but a lot of people won't be cool with it
Ich hoffe nicht, dass es crasht, denn ich habe erst vor kurzen mal ein "bisschen" (ca. 500$) ins Saving transferiert und wollte eigentlich noch auf ca. 2000$ aufstocken (dank des Verkaufs meiner Splinterlands-Karten hab ich nun bisschen was in meiner Wallet)
Da der Hive zu HBD-Kurs aber aktuell ziemlich im Keller ist, hab ich den Rest vorerst mal aufgepowert und hoffe auf bessere Zeiten 😅
Bin gespannt wann es hier knallt wegen den 20%
I don't think it's much. But at the same time such a proposal should be given on hive so that everyone does hive saving.
Es stellt sich die Frage ob irgendwelche Szenarien durchgespielt worden sind mit dem weiteren Halten der 20% bzw einer Reduzierung. Hive hat jedoch andere dringendere Probleme die angegangen werden müssen wie z.B. neue Nutzer ins Ökosystem holen und die Anzahl der aktiven Accounts oben zu halten.
I haven't decided to stand pat or reduce the rate yet.
Is this correct? So how much Hive did it cost to print 20% over the last year?
I did the math on this in the post you linked and concluded we printed close to 0 Hive.
Could have been slightly above or below zero.
You are saying that it would be impossible for HBD to maintain an average growth of 20% year over year. Do you really believe that? Bitcoin has sustained 100% growth year over year for a decade. There's a lot of room for growth in crypto, including HBD. 20% is not a lot in this context. These claims of 20% being unsustainable are based on nothing except for the fact that UST crashed to zero. HBD is not UST.
But perhaps everyone already knows my take and I should pipe down already.
Unclear.
The effect on Hive only materializes when people start to unstake HBD and convert it to Hive to pay out their interest in USD. Then the money is drawn from Hive as a collateral at the current Hive/HBD price.
Do you currently see a year on year growth of 20% on Hive? In the long run it is unsustainable because every APR greater than 0 leads to exponential growth. It is just a matter of time.
No, Hive is only minted in the conversion process, which is something that the vast majority of users don't do.
To say that the collateral backstop will be used is to assume that there are no buyers at $1 on the average and liquidity bots are constantly converting in the background.
And therefore every APR offered by anyone ever is unsustainable?
Is that right?
Uh yeah of course I do Hive is a 3 year old network and crypto growth is insanely volatile.
We could get 100% growth-rate in one year that carries us for 4 other years that have 0% growth.
This is crypto nobody expects less than 20% growth.
Literally no one: except apparently the users building this weird false narrative based on feelz and not actual data.
Yeah okay exactly, and that isn't happening, which is the entire point.
Right?
I don't think 20% is unsustainable right now. It has brought a lot of capital to hive and it's starting to take off with the less wealthy areas such as Sucre as a real stable coin. I just don't think the inflation of Hive is that big and I don't think Hive will drop down that low either.
No, i am not in a favour of it.
Hoffe das es so bleibt oder zumindest auf min. 5% bleibt da es doch auch noch als eine kleine Anlage Möglichkeit dient.
And if its APR is low, then I think it will not be a good thing. People will lose faith and then prices will start to down again.
Sounds scammy and unsustainable no matter what hive finance gurus say 😂
SocialFi is going to rise soon, some solutions are pushed by huges companies. 20% API on a stable can make the difference and draw a few people to Hive instead of the competitors.
Man kann nicht mehr Zins zahlen als ein Unternehmen an Ertrag erwirtschaftet. Das führt unweigerlich zum Konkurs eines Unternehmens.
Schau Dir die Entwicklung bei Hive an und Du wirst merken, dass selbst ein Zins von 2% per annum gegenwärtig nicht darstellbar ist.
Ich finde 10- 12 % auf HBD wären immer noch sehr cool :-)
Langfristig aber immer mindestens 5% über den was man bei einer Bank bekommen würde.
Das ist doch ein schöner Anreiz für Sparfüchse.
Rehived.
Sehr lukrativ :) nur die Frage, wie sicher hier dein Geld lieg ...
This is a very important issue, and I think it should be a formula that should be applied to interest rates in terms of HBD, since this currency should be taken care of, and even more so the hive, which is the backing.
And as for the new users, many may come, but if they do not see a better support, they leave.