4 Reasons for Lowering the HBD Savings Interest Rate
The high interest rate for $HBD staked in Savings has persisted for several years, and I believe it is time to reconsider it. I don’t see it beneficial to the ecosystem, even though many users take advantage of it. No wonder, you can hardly get any better investment option considering the risks and potential profit. Let me explain my concerns.
20.00% APR as a Red Flag
Imagine knowing nothing about Hive. Someone suggests buying $10,000 and vesting it in Hive Savings. Leave it untouched for a year, and you can withdraw $12,000 the next February. Sounds great, huh? However, most people, including me, would turn skeptical. A typical conversation might unfold like this:
“20% profit on staked coins? Would it be used for trading or something?”
“No, and that's a unique feature of Hive – you retain control with your keys, unlike traditional crypto staking on exchanges. You can withdraw anytime with a 3-day waiting period and earn interest for the period your money was vested.”
“But how does it offer interest? Wouldn’t HBD lose value as it's emitted to cover the savings interest?”
“Quite unlikely. The Hive ecosystem has tools that have successfully kept HBD pegged to USD for years. I can share some posts that explain that with you.”
“Don’t bother, dude. I’ve seen many crypto scams, and 20% APR for nothing looks precisely like one.”
Most people outside Hive think this way – the high interest has been around for a while, and you don’t see crowds buying HBD and staking it. Instead, current users stake their HBD rewards rather than building their HP stake.
Driving Users From Active Participation on Hive
I try my best to curate content I relate to. I spread votes across the network, maintaining CSI over 25. My current curation APR hovers around 9%, and I believe that since the reward curve is flat now, people who actively vote and interact with others would have more or less the same rate. The current HP APR is around 3%. In other words, selling $HIVE for HBD and putting it into Savings brings way higher profit than staking HP and curating content.
Yes, you can argue that HP allows you to participate in Hive governance. But does it really? With my 66.5k HP, I am among the 300 richest users. However, my witness or proposal votes don’t matter much. The success of both witnesses and proposals depends on whale votes. To get to the top 20, a witness needs about 60M HP. Pushing a proposal through requires over 28M HP. When the top few whales decide to support somebody or something, they can hardly fail. I am not complaining about that. I respect whales and hope they're doing their best, just like I try to. The point is that participation in the governance is a bit of an illusion for a common Hivean with thousands to tens of thousands of HP. And under current circumstances, it is more efficient to vest HBD and give up on governance.
Loosening the Bonds
I believe the best possible life cycle of a Hivean spans from a hard-working newbie who does their best to establish themselves within communities of their interest (be it cooking, gaming, traveling, finance&crypto, or anything else) to a renowned curator who keeps posting. Whoever stays for several years should build up enough HP to have significant voting power, create social bonds across the network (and, preferably, borders), and help others grow. Your HP stake should motivate you to do your best, as blooming Hive is in your best interest. Eventually, you’d earn more from curation than from content creation. If you keep withdrawing HP and staking HBD instead, you don’t really care what happens as long as the pegging mechanism works.
If Hiveans quit building up their HP stake, they keep being dependent on curating projects rather than on other users. I appreciate what such projects do. They upvote me sometimes, but I’d appreciate it even more if thousands of independent single curators upvote and interact with others. Having fun.Creating bonds. Bonds mean loyalty and empower the network. They provide a human touch. Sure, you can do so with 5k HP and 3K HBD in savings, but if you had 20K HP instead, you’d make the upvoted authors significantly happier. Also, you might feel more responsibility for your votes and overall behavior.
Hindering HBD's Adoption as a Currency
I see a potential for HBD to become a widely used currency. Given the general volatility of cryptocurrencies, many are not yet practical for day-to-day transactions. Let's consider a hypothetical scenario: we agree on a three-month job rewarded with 10,000 Hive due on the last day of each month. It could result in a payout ranging from $2,000 to $5,000. This uncertainty is less than ideal, especially when this job would be my primary income source. Opting for a fixed $3,000 payment in HBD is a straightforward solution. It works the same for small businesses accepting crypto.
However, the high interest rate hinders such practical usage. Many perceive HBD primarily as a passive income-generating asset, discouraging its use for daily transactions. I don’t say this mindset applies to everybody. I am ready to work for HBD or pay somebody in it basically anytime, but you don’t see many payments happening nowadays. Although HBD transactions do take place, their volume does not grow.
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
Im sorry if Im wrong about anything I mention on this post no intentions to tell others what to do, after been on Hive only for 1 year I do agree with many of your points at first only saw HDB as passive income now days I would love to get paid and be able to use HBD on a daily bases but thats not happening anytime soon mainly because crypto adoption in Panama is terrible, I have seen this idea going around but I think it all goes back to Layer 2 projects they have to be attractive enough so Hive can do 2 things, first eliminate Hive reward pool and second lower down HBD APR and move all this reward system to Layer 2 projects and let Hive as the base token for governance with a very small APR, down here banks pay 7% annual interest if you have an account over 15k and its fixed into your account, 20% I dont think is that crazy for crypto but I also agree that curation APR and Hive APR makes half of that but then what other attractive are for ppl to stay on Hive? its a problem I dont have the answer for because how do you make ppl stay? they all get in for the easy rewards and to make it on Hive is not easy at all, when they see 20% in 12 months thats nothing for crypto most will think, ppl only vote for your posts because of you staying active so at this point in time I think we need to demand more from layer 2 platforms to build things attractive to users and eventually all this APR from Hive and HBD can be lower down drastically and let this projects do their thing
You'd loved to get paid in HBD so that you could put it into Savings, am I right? ;) Or would you then spend it? A currency needs to circulate, when people just save it, it turnes into an asset.
I am happy when people discuss my posts, as long as they discuss fair. Also, I'm open to any opinions. I am quite unsure what the right interest rate should be. Off the top of my head, I would suggest something like 3-5%. But there's no research behind that.
I would use it to pay for things, fee less, no down time, transparent, cant be censor, instant and also I would not have to black market my way into crypto every time I want to buy more crypto
Then you'd use it as a currency. That's great! :)
The interest rate for HBD should be set at 12%, aligning it with the combined returns from staking and curating on Hive, which is a balanced approach. Currently, curation on Hive averages around 9%, and when adding the 3% from staking Hive, it sets a reasonable benchmark for HBD interest. My initial investment in Hive was made well before the increase in HBD interest rates. Had I been aware that HBD interest rates would surge to 20%, my investment choice would likely have been HBD, given its undeniable appeal at such a rate. Now, I find myself waiting for Hive's value to increase so that I can switch my investment to HBD, hoping the interest rate remains at 20%—an ideal scenario.
Thanks for your personal view. I believe the HBD interest rate should not match the HP one, but that is just my opinion - from my point of view the people who actively help the network grow should take more profit than those who simply stake HBD. And staking HBD should definitely be less appealing than using HP on a daily basis.
Aligning the HBD annual percentage rate (APR) with that of HIVE could be a beneficial initial move. Although HIVE is fundamentally the cornerstone of this platform, there appears to be a disconnect between the platform's major stakeholders and decision-makers regarding its value, contributing to HIVE's declining price. The establishment of a 20% interest rate for HBD seems to correlate directly with HIVE's downward trend. A more tactical approach to managing the interest rate could also support HIVE's price, especially now, as we anticipate the start of a bull market. Lowering the HBD rate could redirect investments towards HIVE, potentially drawing in more investors and ensuring we capitalize on the bull market. I believe that without halving the HBD rate soon, HIVE may struggle to surpass the 30-40 cent mark, risking our chance to benefit from the upcoming bull market for HIVE.
Sorry for the off topic, but I cannot help myself: Why are you muted by LeoFinance?
One of the people that is in charge there doesn't like me for some reason.
Centralized projects that use the Hive reward pool as a crutch
kill what makes this blockchain different from others
rn its true, little innovation and use the reward pool as their backbone, same as many accounts that sell what ever they get but can we depend for ever on a reward pool? how can we make it more attractive for new users and sustain the price of Hive without them just dumping what ever they get from the reward pool?
It's difficult to answer, normal people will copy memes, plagiarize, spam or simply sell anything that earn and for that they will be chased until they abandon the blockchain. That's why I think they even make it difficult on purpose to register.
The idea of going to the second layer is good, but the problem is it devalues the HIVE blockchain (in my opinion)... The right thing would be for everything to happen in the first layer, but the problem is for the community to reach consensus on something (perhaps this is where the second layer will have an advantage because it is centralized).
Complete nonsense
Could you give some arguments, perhaps?
This has been discussed many times - every time in a bear market, someone wants to improve something and proposes to change everything. I read your post again and don't understand how lowering the rate can help Hive. In a bull market, no one will think that 20% is a lot - these are the same risks as people in Hive. If Hive grows to $0.8, I would, on the contrary, increase the interest rate. Not long to wait...
There is still no argument in your extended comment. Thank's for elaborating it anyways.
What is the benefit of the current rate? It did not bring masses to Hive. It did not affect trading volumes. I believe that lowering it would motivate people to vest Hive into HP, as it will bring higher profit than HBD in Savings. That is a simple math.
The more HP you have, the more incentive there is for you to use it. And to use it wisely. With more influence, many people (not everyone, obviously - others may not give a sh*t) would feel more responsibility. And would think more about voting and curating.
Those who only have HBD in Savings simply don't have to care about anything.
I don’t think anyone keeps it only in HBD - I think they keep it both here and there for diversification.
20% APR on stablecoin is too much even in bull market.
Show me any reputable project which offer such interest.
In a bull market you can get 500%, 1200%, 2000%
I am talking about reputable sustainable projects....
Give me an example of one which offer 20%
It's not about interest - it's about risks: interest in a bank and interest in a relatively small blockchain are two different things.
Risk in investing in stablecoin is "relatively small" compared to other crypto related products. You can compare that with staking, which also hold some risk in form of project complete collapse
Yes, but this is if you invest millions and we are talking about ordinary people with 100 $ - the risk in a stablecoin is not great, but the potential benefit in a coin is many times greater - I am afraid that if the rate is lowered, many people will leave the project - that’s all I wanted to say.
Please understand that we talk about HBD stablecoin and not about HIVE
P.S. APR interest is not dependent on bull or bear market, it's always the same. You probably mixing your numbers with something else
I don’t confuse it - it is the same but has a different meaning for a person on a bearish and bullish cycle!
What is the difference???
20% APR in US dollar pegged stablecoin is completely the same does not matter the market conditions
No and again no, under different market conditions 20% can be either a little or a lot!
20% is 20% always.
If you want to compare it with high risk investment it's different story. Just can't mix apples with pears in discussion
I understand you - just talking about the same thing, we have different views on the economy - I don’t pretend to be right (but I am a supporter of not touching what already works well)
Ok, but I think this was the original question.
If 20% APR on HBD works well for everybody or just for few.
For a few, they will return the interest earned to the system again - those who have been here for a long time will not leave here - after all, we love Hive
Občas čtu i v cizím jazyce. Pravda, s překladačem. Se zájmem opravdu sleduji Tvoje poslední aktivity na Hive. Zdá se, že mu přikládáš vyšší prioritu než před dejme tomu půl rokem. Že v něm vidíš vyšší potenciál než dřív.
Mýlím se?
Hlavně mám víc času.
Uvažuješ i o fullhiveanování? (Báječný neologismus.)
Aby se mi to vyplatilo, potřeboval bych hive někde nad třemi dolary. A protože by pravděpodobně výrazně narostla konkurence, tak asi spíš nad čtyřmi.
Píšeš, že jsi mezi 300 nejbohatšími investory. A zřejmě dost prudce stoupáš. U Tebe asi má smysl vymýšlet strategii, což v tom článku i děláš.
Já se povezu. Měsíčně vyvádím těch 300 hive, což už jsem psal vícekrát. A zůstávám pořád zhruba na stejné HP. S třetinou toho, co máš Ty, mě nic lepšího nenapadá. Zvažoval jsem, že sem něco vložím. Ale nakonec jsem zvolil konzervativnější investici.
Nejsem mezi 300 nejbohatšími investory, drtivá většina HP je tady vydělaná. Ale můj účet je mezi top 300, pokud jde o aktuální počet HP.
Ano, takhle je to přesnější. Věřím, že tu bude někdo s milionem HBD, nebo to bude mít v tokenech, herních NTF...
Jen konstatuju, že Tvoje angažovanost tady vzrostla. Vítání nováčků atd.
Už tady je - lazy-panda https://peakd.com/@lazy-panda/wallet ten někde splašil 1mil HBD a hodil je rovnou do HBD savings... A jak je vidět, docela mu to vynáší...
Obecně panďáci jsou pašáci... Nedělá nic zakázaného. Ale Hive jako celku to asi dobře neudělá.
I agree with your points.
I think HIVE is bleeding out because of such high interest on stablecoin. Makes no sense.
I understand if such interest is offered on HIVE token itself, but why on stablecoin??
There are better way where to use some extra funds than distribute it in form of interest even for users who do not participate in the project at all.
I'm glad to see you back after a while :)
I wouldn't say Hive is bleeding out because of the interest, but from my point of view, it definitely does not help :)
Hi, I stand for such words as I think this interest rate gives no positive effect to the project at all.
I will like to hear at least one ...
Yep, we’re on the same page, mate :)
P.S. I forgot to thank you for writing such post. One need a courage to write an unpopular opinion even when backed by actual data.
Very important for any crypto related community, with possible tendencies to keep head in sand and don't question anything.
Thank you
Thanks for the credit. To be honest and humble, I don't consider myself being that brave; the high rate is something that bothers many ;) And some voiced that even before me :)
I did notice HBD savings APR dropped from 20 to 19 since yesterday... although your point is still valid...
What I started doing this week was set my payouts to 50/50 and then I convert half of my daily HBD to Hive
20% and 19% are basically the same rate ;)
What do you do with the other half? Do you vest it into Savings? If so, that's precisely what I was talking about. No offense, it is perfectly reasonable, yet not really beneficient for the ecosystem. And I totally understand it.
Definitely worth considering.
Ever since the announcement of 20% APR, I have started socking bits of it away because I believed it could not last. I wouldn't feel right if I put all earnings in HBD as Hive has so much more utility and token value upside in my mind. Plus, a growing stake with higher value upvotes gets attention much better and my network here is by far my favourite asset.
I want to see HBD used as transactional currency. Pretty simple what the value is give or take a few points and it is as easy and quick to spend a couple HBD on a coffee as anything else. Having a business collecting these and turning them around to pay rent or make debt payment, or even sock it away for an APR better than the banks offer would be excellent. Having a 20% APR on that is like spending from your savings account to buy that coffee. Not gonna happen!
Not sure how long the APR can last. I am pretty sure something has to give as a growth phase would screw with the peg when people have a reason to join en mass. 20% APR is going to become more attractive as more exchanges make it easier to buy and sell and a million new users will kill the liquidity in a heartbeat if they do their diligence while 20% is still there.
I will keep socking and hoarding as long as I can and make sure to powerup along the way as the network is the lasting asset here for me.
I believe we have a similar approach - we like to interact with people and take advantage of our share in order to support whatever and whoever we find enriching/entertaining/interesting/etc. However subjective and unfair this approach si - there are definitely people that craete content deserving rewards I miss, and perhaps would not comprehend. We enjoy networking, we enjoy Hive.
I also believe the interest rate is acutally harming Hive and is not in our interest. What a wordplay :)
Thank you for your extensive comment, I hope it'd inspire somebody :)
Some valid points here. And you didn´t even mention the one we talked about the other day. The enormous costs of maintaining the peg through accounts like hbd.funder...
That's very true, thank you for adding that poit. It didn't cross my mind in the first place :)
It doesn't cost much to maintain the peg. In fact, it generates gains for the fund. If you think about it, when the price of HBD is low, the fund buys more to raise the price. When the price of HBD is high, the fund sells to lower the price. It is always buying low and selling high. The act of maintaining the peg is profitable with ordinary market fluctuations. Prolonged dips or rises could be a problem. But savvy Hivers will also jump in to profit, which assists the fund.
I get it but just by seeing the reputation of that account and knowing how the rep algo works, it´s obvious that millions (probably even dozens of millions) of Hive have been taken from the reward pool to fund the peg. I´m not saying this is wrong but I can imagine that amount of Hive could have been used in some other, potentially more efficient ways. For example to fund some marketing or onboarding efforts...
Hi! I have to admit that I'm still a novice in the financial world of Hive, but your article has piqued my curiosity. So, I'm going to try to answer with my noob words and thoughts. I might be wrong, but I find it interesting, especially as I embody the perspective of a newcomer.
To begin with, regarding the 20% interest rate, my first reaction was to think it sounded unrealistic. I discovered this on my own and didn't pay much attention at first. However, you have to admit that cryptocurrencies operate on principles that differ from traditional financial systems. So this rate could simply reflect the new economic realities and opportunities offered by blockchain technology. Couldn't it, in fact, help Hive attract new users? It's a very good argument, and the perfect gateway!
As for control and accessibility, I find it reassuring to be able to get a return on my investment while retaining control of my funds. Above all, it gives me the impression that Hive places great importance on the security and trust of its users, although I could be wrong, as my expertise in economics as applied to Hive is almost non-existent!
Well, finally, I see the HBD as something easy to explain to someone who knows nothing about cryptocurrencies (like my grandmother, for example). It reminds her of something familiar and reliable: the dollar. So, initially attracted by a 20% interest and her grandson's benevolent advice, she might find herself getting more involved in the community once she better understands its benefits. That's kind of the path I've taken.
I hope my beginner's perspective can provide some interesting food for thought, even if the level of your article remains a little too complex for me ^^
By the way, I'm going to read the other comments because I think all the points of view are really interesting.
I've just read a few comments. I'm beginning to understand that the 20% interest rate on stablecoin hasn't brought much to Hive. But since when is it set at 20%? It takes time for people to get there. I've been talking to my girlfriend about Hive for 2 months, every day, at least 60 times. Yet she's still not here. She's got an account, but for the moment she just checks in once in a while, 1 time a week I think.
It takes time to change mentalities. I don't know how much marketing is done outside Hive to promote Hive.
Well, that is my opinion - I think it is not beneficient in anyhow. There are other opinions for sure :)
I believe it was introduced 3 years ago, but I am not 100% sure about that.
My girlfriend has an account and and hasn't started blogging either :) And I have been around for six years. Don't worry about that :)
Thanks for stopping by and commenting with basically a stand-alone post :)
Yes, the 20% interest rate may seem shabby, and I tried to express that in my post. It sort of soaks up funds from the Rewards Pool as @phortun suggests (he or I could elaborate it a bit if you wish). That may not be wrong - the RP is huge (HUGE) considering the number of users. There should have been tens of millions of creators sharing it by now, and there are thousands.
HBD would be great as a commonly used currency, just like you say. Our gradmas could easily comprehend one dollar worth of token that is worth a dollar today and will be worth a dollar in June. That's why I would like to see it as day-to-day payment token.
However, I'd discourage my grandma from anything offering 20% APR. And you should do so too. Even though it's Hive, which I have a lot of confidence in.
Okay, I feel like I'm starting to understand some of the subtleties. I don't have a lot of data at hand so I'll let you validate my thoughts or not.
So in the end, the 20% HBD is a kind of experiment whose objective was to see if it would attract users and encourage people to publish? I'm sure it goes further than that, but that was the primary objective, wasn't it?
On that basis, the conditions for keeping the HBD at 20% could be as follows:
And if all this data shows that the 20% rate is unfavorable, then it should be lowered. But shouldn't it first be lowered to 10 or 15% instead of directly to 3%?
Shouldn't it be lowered cautiously, assessing the potential impact on the whole ecosystem? Then, I imagine, there could be an observation period to assess the effects of this modification on the platform's dynamics.
Yes, if I am not mistaken, the idea behind that interest rate was to make the ecosystem more attractive for outsiders and then convert them in regular users. I don't think it was a success, though.
In my opinion, anything should be more profitable that curating. As you cannot get over say 10% APR on your curration, the HBD APR should not surpass this treshold. Otherwise it is an incetive to quit curating and use Savings instead.
The rate is quite flexible, it can be changed anytime to almost any value, it is just up to witnesses.
The APR of HBD has been increasing with the intention of encouraging people to convert HIVE into HBD, thus reducing the circulation of HIVE and causing its price to rise.
1 million HBD at the current price is 3.3 million HIVE, but if HIVE is valued at 3 dollars, then it would be 333k HIVE.
Yes, but that happened two or three years ago. I believe the incentive was not strong enough, the measurement did not work, and it's the highest time to reconsider this approach.
It is merely my opinion and I am open to discussion :) I don't say I am right. Feel free to provide your view at the topic :)
Já jsem začal loni využívat HBD savings jako záchraný modul, pro případ kdyby se mi rozbil současný foťák. Který občas už dost zlobí a investice do nového modelu je kolem 4k USD. Což si ze současnýho zaměstnání prostě nemůžu dovolit. A pravděpodobně by tím moje působení na Hive skončilo. Takhle až tato situace nastene půjde o koloběh HBD>BTC>Alza>Camera>Hive :)
Ono to při dnešních cenách není až tolik. Ale chápu. Nicméně tvořit tady lze i bez fotografií. Zejména pokud ti jdou jazyky ;)
No jak pro koho, ale do teď jsem pracoval v oboru kde to je hodně peněz. Dejme tomu 4 celý měsíční platy. Tak samozřejmě to jde i bez fotek, ale fotky jsou velká část mého úspšchu zde. Delším textům se věnuji něco přes rok :) a pořád se mám co učit.
To jsi pracoval za minimální mzdu plus nějaké symbolické osobko, ne?
Normální státní tabulka +15 let praxe. Prostě se jako zaměstnanec v ČR pracuje za almužnu kromě IT a Bankovního sektoru.
To si tak úplně nemyslím, minimálně v Praze se slušně platí i mimo IT a bankovnictví. Musíš ale něco umět. Třeba u nás jsou platy i nároky na evropské úrovni. A není to první firma, kde tohle zažívám.
Tabulky pro státní zaměstnance jsou úplně někde jinde, to jsou opravdu almužny.
No nevím, asi jsem měl vždycky smůlu na obory ve kterých jsem pracoval. Vystudovaný mám strojírenství, který v podstatě zabila doba po revoluci, až do doby kolem 2015 kdy se platy začaly zvedat. Tak jsem se přesunul do zelený oblasti, v který jsem viděl trochu budoucnoust. Ale jediný co se zvedlo je objem práce. Třeba teď jsem koukal co bych mohl dostat jako zahradník s 10 lety praxe. Problém je každý chce zeleň, ale nikomu se za to nechce moc platit. Takže jediná možnost dělat za 18-20K nástup a nebo dřít o nevidim do nevidím aby se dostal na Pražský průměr. Řekl bych, že jsem se toho za 10 let naučil dost. Z pomocné síly na mistra a skupinou lidí pod sebou. Takže vedení lidí, oraganizece práce, plánování cest atd..
Český trh práce je docela konkurenční. Záleží na tom, kdo by mohl dělat tvojí práci. Prodavač v supermarketu má v Praze nástupní plat kolem 35 tisíc a po dvou letech praxe 40. To je základ, víkendové a sváteční směny jsou za příplatek. Může se ti to zdát jako hodně, ale jde o to, že ty firmy neseženou nikoho, kdo by to dělal levněji, a zároveň by mohly dotyčného s klidným svědomím posadit za pokladnu. A nechci nijak shazovat tu práci, taky bych ji nezvládl dělat, rozhodně ne na full time.
Pokud děláš v městské firmě nebo někde, kde jsou tabulky, tak jsi asi v nějaké sedmé osmé třídě a tečka. Nahoru můžeš jít třeba doplněním si vzdělání, pokud je to na tvé pozici možné. Nebo můžeš jít do soukromého.
Ve spoustě manuálních profesí se angažuje hodně pololegální práce, případně práce na černo. Vaše firma nabídne do výběrka cenu třeba půl milionu. Vyhraje někdo, kdo to udělá za tři sta tisíc, což je pro vás nereálné. Dotyčný najme partu Ukrajinců nebo lidí s exekucemi a platí jim na ruku. Ušetří na odvodech, což je třeba třetina celkových mzdových nákladů. V účetnictví se to nějak vyřeší, třeba dva lidi najme oficiálně, aby to nevypadalo. Smutné, ale děje se to. A má to vliv na cenu práce v oboru. U těch pokladních se tohle stát nemůže, a tak jsou platy jinde.
Druhá věc je ocenění práce, myšleno teď práce vaší firmy. Ty se učíš španělsky. Když ti Duolingo přestane stačit, budeš mít tři možnosti. Lektora v nějaké jazykové škole, který se tím živí, má kvalifikaci, zajištěné materiály, hospitace, metodologickou podporu... A lekce tě vyjde na 700 Kč za hodinu. Nebo si můžeš najít někoho, kdo to dělá po práci jako koníček nebo jako přivýdělek při studiu. Řekněme za 300 korun na hodinu. Dotyčnému se to vyplatí, je to čistá ruka, žádné odvody a hodinovka je to slušná. Výuka ale možná nebude tak slušná jako od profíka. Poslední varianta, která mě napadá, je nějaká online platforma, ve které tě bude učit třeba někdo z Venezuely za 6 dolarů na hodinu. Ta platforma si nechá minimálně třetinu, u takhle nízké částky klidně i polovinu, takže José nebo María z Caracasu dostanou s bídou tři dolary. Ale to je dost možná víc, než kdyby dřeli celý den v nedaleké fabrice. Jejich kvalifikace pak bude, že jsou to rodilí mluvčí a na rozdíl od většiny krajanů mají slušný notebook co zvládne videohovor přes onu platformu a stabilní připojení k internetu. Neznamená to, že nemohou být lepší než lektor z jazykovky, ale osobně bych na to nesázel. Kterou variantu si vybereš? Vyplatí se ti připlatit za kvalitně odvedenou práci, nebo půjdeš do většího či menšího rizika?
V Česku žije spousta lidí, kterým naskočí osypky, když před nimi zmíníš, že by se věci měly dělat pořádně. To se projevuje právě ve službách. A tak se kvalitní gastronomie, kadeřnictví, kosmetika a wellness nebo třeba zakázková výroba nábytku rozvíjejí jen pomalu. Nevím, jaká je situace ve tvém segmentu, péči o zeleň vůbec nerozumím. Oč jste lepší než Franta, který načerno najme partu lidí ochotných z takového či onakého důvodu dělat za méně než minimálku, a tak má v porovnání s vámi poloviční mzdové náklady? Tohle je třeba vysvětlit vašim (potenciálním) zákazníkům, což samozřejmě není na tebe jako na víceméně řadového zaměstnance. Ale když zákazník zaplatí za kvalitu, je možné to promítnout i do platů. Kuchař ve čtyřce na sídlišti bere zlomek toho co šéfkuchař restaurace s Michelinskou hvězdou. I ten řezník u Babiše ve velkovýrobě si domů nosí mnohem méně peněz než šikovný řezník na nějaké vyhlášené regionální farmě.
No, a ta poslední věc je umět si říct o peníze. Šéfe, dělám tu zahradníka. Oukej, za to mě platíte fér. Kromě toho ale dělám spoustu věcí, za který mám zodpovědnost navíc. A za ty si zasloužím dostat zaplaceno taky. Protože když je nebudu dělat já, budete si muset najmout nějakou administrativní sílu třeba na čtvrt úvazku, která je za mě udělá. A to se vám nevyplatí. Takže je fér přihodit deset tisíc do základu a deset do osobka. Za to, že jsou vždycky všichni včas na místě, vědí co mají dělat a a mají co dělat. Protože kdyby z osmi hodin odmakali šest kvůli nějakým prostojům a výpadkům v logistice, těžce by se vám to nevyplatilo.
A začít po těch letech dělat něco v oboru, jen o úroveň výš, taky není od věci. Třeba zahradního architekta. Předpokládám, že nástupka v Praze bude zhruba v polovině toho rozmezí níže, takže řekněme 48 až 50 tisíc:
Všechno co jsi popsal výše je přesně to co se děje v reálu. Já jsem se snažil dělat vše pořádně, abych se k tomu musel co nejméně vracet. Třeba podle mojí dlouhodobý statisky můj tým měl 90% úspěšnost pro ujmuti vysazených stromů. Přitom průměr co sleduji v okolí je tak 60-70% v dobrý konstalaci hvězd :). Zahradní architektura je obor na VŠ pro zakládání zahrad, podle toho je průměrný plat asi adekvátní. Proto můj následný plán je více se věnovat Hive, lépe spravovat moje investice a posléze rozjet zahradnickou firmu zaměřenou právě na kvalitu, což právě v ČR dost chybí.
A z jiného soudku, nesou ti ty Landy ve Splinterlands? Jestli se nepletu, je to tak rok, co ses těšil na pasivní příjem z nich, protože ti padly nějaké hodně slušné.
Když jsme teď bydleli v Praze, občas jsem chodil do jednoho zahradnictví na brigádu, jak se říká: vyčistit si hlavu a ušpinit ruce. Tak jsem do toho oboru malinko nakoukl a ty tvoje čísla mi teda moc nesedí. Šikovní zahradníci s praxí si zakládají vlastní firmy / živnosti a nemají problém si vydělat 50 až 100 tisíc měsíčně. Aspoň teda v Praze, kde je poptávka po zahradnických službách hodně velká. Vím, že je celkem běžné, že si rodina k novému domku nechá třeba za půl milionu udělat i zahradu... Ten, kdo si může v Praze dovolit vlastní domek, nemá hluboko do kapsy a na nějakou korunu pak nehledí ani u té zahrady.
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I agree with your points. There are many more reasons to lower the HBD% rate too. The Hive whales need to decide if they want to call the chain Hive or HBD, you can't have both.
Obviously I enjoy the 20% interest in HBD savings... but:
At close to 8000HP, my monthly curation rewards is about 60HP a month... closer to about 10% reward for the active working of reading and voting up others. I do think if active curation is to be encouraged, then you can't have something more lucrative and totally passive so available instead...
Also, I notice the HIVE price is influenced by Bitcoin a lot, but how much of the rest of its volatility is linked to buying/selling to keep the HBD linked to the dollar? Is HIVE a lot more volatile because of the amount of HBD out there?
Yes, you can hardly get over 10% curating APR. And yes, people who do something shall be rewarded more than people who simply stack bucks. It does not make sense otherwise.
I am neither a trader nor an analyst, so I can't honestly reply that question. Try asking in Threads, perhaps ;)
Some time ago there was a lot of news that the interest rate is being reduced to 15 percent. It was known that their money will remain as much as they have invested and they will continue to get interest rate, so this thing is very good for living a good life.
I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you mean.
No jo, stačí napsat pár odstavců v angličtině pro zahraniční obecenstvo a hned máš pod jedním článkem živěji než v #cesky za celý týden :)
Kvalitní engagement. Jen tak dál.
@tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 0/59) Liquid rewards.
Díky :) Na druhou stranu nemalá část toho engagementu je v češtině ;) Od oka tak deset patnáct komentů.
Zpětně koukám, že ses s tímhle postem dostal do prestižního "100+ koment klubu" - gratulka :) Asi poprvé, že? Pocit je to fajn, ale toho času, co stojí to odepisování, co? :) Znám moc dobře. Mnohdy by ty odpovědi (objemově) vydaly na několik samostatných článků :)
Jojo, to bude asi poprvé. Možná nějaké úplně prapůvodní návody nasbíraly podobné množství komentů, ale tam se sbíraly i několik let a spousta z nich bylo jen poděkování od lidí, kteří už toho pak bohužel o moc víc nevytvořili.
This is one practical example of the use of HBD. There may be more in the future. In essence, it all depends on the consensus of the witnesses. If the majority of Top Witnesses are in favour of 20% APR, then it is 20%. Because some have set even less, between 10%-20%. Well, there are not only 20 Witnesses, over 100, but they are not Top Witnesses, the rest I don't know if they have that option or if they are taken into account at all. It's more a question of how many witnesses there should be for consensus. There are quite a few of these discussions...
Well, on the other hand, it's not a concrete figure. If something comes up, it can be set at more or less, so I don't think we need to get too worried. But I agree that a debate is needed.
!DHEDGE
Yes, it all depends on the witness' consensus, or, in fact, the majority of them in each 21 confirmation round. If I am no mistaken, the actual value for a round is the median of the 21 values.
I believe this discussions should arise across the network, as the topic is quite important.
Thanks for the dhedge upvotes.
It mostly suits me, so I am biased. As long as it lasts, it will be very fine with me. Otherwise, this cipher is flexible and will adapt to the situation, as far as I understand it.
Now I will pick up my monthly profit, just over $40...
The rate does not adapt itself, it solely depends on the value defined by witnesses. For each 63 seconds/21 blocks, it is the median value of their rates. If the community wants to adjust it, we need to appeal to the witnesses. Or vote another ones to the top 20, as it obviously depend on them mainly.
I believe there should be broader discussion since in my point of view, the interest rate actually harms the network. However, I completely understand people using Savings - as I wrote in the first paragraph, you can hardly get any better investment option considering the risks and potential profit.
I don't understand why interest rate harms the network? I don't see anything like that. It indeed takes consensus to replace, but there's also HBD Stabilizer @hbdstabilizer who would definitely do a panic if something went wrong I think this interest rate is quite well controlled by the witnesses and on the other side by the HBD stabiliser. If by any chance something were to go wrong, and I doubt it, the Hive supply is so small for now that it cannot happen from today to tomorrow. @taskmaster4450 and @dalz have written quite a bit about this.
I tried to explain the reasons I see in the post. People lose incentive to participate (and add value to the ecosystem) because it pays off way less than simply putting money in Savings. Curation APR 9% + HP APR 3% cannot match the 20% of Savings, and you usually even have to do something to get the curation.
For somebody outside Hive, the APR may seem as a red flag. How can you give away 20% per year on staked (de facto) stablecoin, which is not used in any kind of luquidity pool or anything. I buy it, I vest it, and next February, I'll come back to withdraw 20% extra. I would not trust it, and even bother to try to find out how is that possible. Apparently, I am not the only one, otherwise we would have millions of people using it instead of common savings accounts.
Under current circumstances, Hive is capable of emitting tons of HBD. HBD Stabilizer can easily keep it peg. But I believe we all pay costs of that policy.
I still think there is no reason to panic. As for the red flag on the outside, the Hive blockchain already had one before this change and nothing has changed now.
According to @geekgirl's post saves are used by just over 3200 accounts, which is actually low when active Hive users are around ten thousand a day.
HBD is currently used in seven liquidity pools. The possibilities to use it are much higher (as you mentioned bonds) and I believe that will also change once the mechanisms (smart contracts) for this are in place.
I personally still do the same posting, curating, and voting as I did before, so I see this as just one more value add that will not change my attitude toward Hive.
I am not saying we shall panic, but that we shall discuss it. One of the reasonings of this interest rate was that it will be attractive for the outsiders. Two or three years later, we can say it did not work.
I haven't noticed arguments for keeping the current rate under this post (I believe there are some, and even the valid ones). An argument I am looking for would explain why is it beneficient for the network as a whole, for the ecosystem. I totally understand it is great for many people. So would be if I used my voting power, which grants me votes worth say $1 when fully charged, to self-vote my posts and comments. I could earn like 20 bucks per day for almost nothing. Wow, free $600 per month! It would definitely be beneficient for me, much more than trying to actually create something and have discussions like this one. However, it would be harming the network (and I would get downvoted once somebody would notice this milking). I don't blame people for using Savings, it actually is smarter and more profitable than curating and requires zero activity. I simply think we, as the community, should discuss it. Thank you for doing so! I really appreciate it.
I am not an expert on liquidity pools, but wouldn't way more people used HBD there if the interest rate was 3-5%? At the very first glance, I'd say Staking has way better risk/reward ratio than liquidity pools (I might be wrong on this one), so if I looked for an investing opportunity, I'd go for Savings.
Well, I would just like to say that the use of HBD is still being explored and that savings is one of the good options.
What you say about self-voting is true, but again we have a mechanism (downvote) that if anyone starts to take a shit, they will be penalized. That's why you don't do it.
What will happen in a year or two, nobody knows, I'm sure.
That's because the harm caused by self-voting abuse is quite obvious, easy to comprehend by anybody. The impact of the interest rate is not. Many people don't really think about it, many others don't know what is the mechanism behind - and I do not blame anyone for not knowing, since it is a responsibility of the community (which means all of us) to govern the network and keep people aware about its perks.
As I said, Savings is a great investment tool. You can hardly find a better one. However, that rate has been around for several years and we could be able to evaluate it now. There are many amazing projects to be launched or being launched, and having this issue solved may only help them to succeed.
At least, Hiveans shall be able to explain how it is sustainable to keep this rate when asked. I don't know any reputable stablecoin (yes, HBD is not a true stablecoin) that gives away 20% interest. Where does the profit come from? The simple answer is that part of the network value (added by active participants and projects) is paid out as a reward for those who stake HBD, which, from my point of view brings zero value. I might just not see the benefit of people staking HBD, I am not saying I'm right on that one.
There have been quite a few posts on this topic, I don't have time to look it up right now, but as @dalz explained, or as I understand it, these profits are generated by converting the inflation part of the Hive, which is also used for the DHF and reward pool. Here is the last post about it.
Also, this post is worth reading APR for HBD in Savings Dropped to 19% for a Short While. Want to know why?
I know the formula with 21 values from all the block confirmators/witnesses of the round and I know where does the emitted HBD come from, or what is it backed with.
The inflation of Hive is/should be linked to the increasing value of the network. More content, more interactions, more projects, more games, more whatever brings attention and value.
Reward Pool rewards those who add value by active participation - posting, comenting, curating. DHF funds those who add value through any project the community finds worth funding. Be it running a node, developing new tools or marketing and onboarding... It could be anything, including the HBD stabilizer.
From my point of view, HBD in Savings does not bring any value and the interest rate only consumes a portion of the Hive inflation. As I said, I don't claim to be right, maybe there's something I don't see. But from the information I have, I believe rewarding passive stakers more than active users does not help Hive to grow.
It does not even make Hive coin more scarce, as it can be converted anytime (true, with a 3.5-day delay).
That is, of course, your opinion. But everything you mentioned is happening, new games are coming, new projects are coming, and people are commenting and voting, no less than before, even more. The HBD APR is just the icing on the cake for those who want to use it. But when new use cases for HBD are introduced, it will probably decrease. Until then, I have nothing against it as it is.
Yep, that's fair, I don't want people to accept my opinion, I just want them to discuss that matter, which, I believe, is one of the most important ones from a common user's point of view :)
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Dozajista v odpověď na tento Tvůj článek sazba úročení HBD okamžitě klesla na 19 p.a. Až jsem se podivoval, jak velký máš na Hive vliv...
Třeba ale máš vliv podvědomý. Nemohl by sis zkusmo myslet, že 19.2. bude hive celý den oscilovat mezi 0.34 a 0.35 USD? Vyzkoušíme, jestli to funguje.
Jo a jsem zmatený. Chvíli je tam 19%, chvíli zase 20%. Jak to děláš?
(V nemoci bývám rozverný. Nechci strašit.)
Hádám, že asi netušíš, jakým způsobem se aktuální úrok vypočítává, což?
Hádáš správně.
Od napsání článku se nic nezměnilo. HBD stanovují svědci. A podle toho, kteří zrovna potvrzují bloky, se z jejich preferencí vypočítává i aktuální úrok. Může se tak měnit každých 63 vteřin, aniž by někdo ze svědků cokoli upravil.
Člověk se dozví věci...
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I particularly not in favor of using a reward for just holding a stablecoin for 3 days in staking, as it does not create any value for Hive. It should better be used as a bond and money used for development for Hive or generating more fund.
It only create more Hive and more HBD through stabilizer and it has to balance $1 of HBD to Hive tokens all the time which is quite a complex mechanism but generates more and more tokens that goes into market to become liquid.
HBD Stabilizer cannot issue new Hive or HBD. It can convert them (I don't know if it actually does or not, I thought it only trades there and back), but that's something anybody can do.
Hmmmm. Very interesting read. I must admit that I have been taking advantage of the 20% APR available on HBD savings, but somehow it doesn't feel as good as growing my HP which I strived to do for years and years!
My thinking was to grow it, knowing that it won't be around forever and when it drops back below 10% I could convert it to Hive and power it up..
I wonder would Hive still be at 0.30 if HBD savings did not have such a high APR? I suspect it would be more valuable to be honest, but who knows. It's really just crystal ball gazing trying to guess.
I can't tell what could have been if... I merely presented my humble opinions which root in my common sense :))
There were times with no interest rate at all, and it worked. The great discussion under this post and several others inspired by it gave me an idea for another article regarding the value and usage of Hive (among other topics). I believe that we as a community should self-govern ourselfs a bit better than we currently do, so I appreciate any engagement and opinions on posts like this. I'd be happy if you stopped by in like two days when I publish it and share yout thoughts either :)
Good thing I didn't miss this post because it has opened my mind a bit in some aspects and it is perfectly understandable what you raise.
I have kept my meager coins in saving but I rather do it to save and protect them.
Since I started I have been committed to growing in HP and my account attests to that in a year. However, it is true that for people with more money this 20% APR is not inconsiderable.
Now... inflation is terrible, we all know that. There are economic issues here, such as the stabilizer issue and other things I don't quite understand, which makes it a bit difficult for me to comment. But I understand that for a currency to have value the first thing is that it is necessary, and scarce.
By decreasing this APR, does this have any impact on the creation of fewer coins? And become liquid?
We can also ask ourselves what we are doing to make people need Hive. I am referring to those who are still outside the Blockchain. And even those who are inside it.
See my latest post, for further details. But yes, the more HBD is paid out as interest, the less rewards for authors and curators. Savings APR used to be zero for years.
🫡