Is Now a Good Time to Buy Hive?

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(Edited)

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There are a lot of reasons to be excited about Hive.

And the current spot price is not one of them. As much as I wanted to believe that, "This time is different," it alas, never is. Hive has a very demoralizing way of disappointing us during this phase of the market cycle. We just trade flat forever even when everything else is going up.

Even though Hive is my biggest bag I'm always wondering if I should be buying more. In fact I do have half a Bitcoin sitting on the sidelines for that exact purpose should the opportunity present itself. After all, one of my best trades ever was buying in the 10-15 cent range back in 2020. Interestingly enough it took several months of worry and second-guessing before that move actually paid off. The things that charts could never tell a person who didn't have to live it.

With a token like Hive the best time to buy in is always going to be when morale is absolutely horrible and most of the community is completely disillusioned with the platform. We'd also expect many prominent figures coming forward with how to tweak the tokenomics to 'fix' the system when in reality the only fix is to keep grinding and push forward into the bull market.

If I'm being honest with myself morale on the platform isn't that low, it could be much much lower. Our incentive mechanics are fully intact and emissions are covering the cost of infrastructure. However we have gotten a lot of these bear-market-ideas that all revolve around printing less tokens to make number go up. Which is ironic because a recession is exactly when we want to be printing on money and taking on debt so we can hit the ground running in the bull market to pay it all back when things are doing well, but I digress.

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Seeing Hive near rank #350 is insane.

That alone makes me think I should buy more because it wasn't that long ago that we were hovering around rank #220 for months or even years. It's going to take an x2 in price just to get back to where we were before. We need to pull an x7 just to get back into the top 100, which is a rank that is not only achievable but arguably where we belong considering no other network is out there doing what we are doing.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter

I'm still being very conservative with my Bitcoin and refusing to buy in at this gutter-trash rank because my portfolio is woefully off-balance. Looking back I have never owned enough Bitcoin and if I was making smart financial decisions I would be rotating even harder into it given the current environment.

One Hive is currently 650 sats and looking at the history of this pair I can't really justify further overextension until we get into the 250-400 sat range. Hopefully this would have nothing to do with Hive going down and everything to do with Bitcoin going up. Given the institutional adoption and upcoming halving event we could easily find ourselves in this range. In fact it could even take a year longer to get there; which is a depressing prospect to be sure.

Seeing as half a Bitcoin is 50M sats and my ultimate target is 250 sats per Hive... it's possible that if I get lucky and these numbers collide I could pick up another 200k Hive, which would end up getting me quite close to being a whale around these parts; a huge milestone to be sure. Last I checked there were only 27 whales across the entire network, although we may have added a couple since then.

Regardless such a thing would be a huge accomplishment considering my personal circumstances. When I first got here in 2017 I was worried I'd never even be a dolphin/orca. The prospect of whale-status was absolutely out of the realm of possibility, and yet here we are. Not only is the goal within reach but I would have already gotten there if I had actually played the last market cycle even half correctly.

Hive's biggest problem?

As of this moment in our history the network's biggest issue is liquidity. It was not that easy to buy Hive before all the regulatory crackdowns occurred, and it is exponentially more difficult now Bittrex and Binance are no longer options for a lot of people. On top of that exchanges like Huobi may still have a listing but are potentially captured by bad-actors like Justin Sun, so that's not great. I personally use MEXC which magically has no KYC and leverage but still has piss poor liquidity. Then there are the South Korean exchanges that aren't even accessible to the outside world even though they're holding a staggering and alarming 120M coins. Eek.

For all the talk I've done about HBD yield I'd take it all back in an instant and allocate those emissions to a Hive/HBD AMM as an alternative to the current orderbook. This would create actual (exponential) liquidity rather than pulling money out of the system. By tethering the Hive price to its own derivative stable coin our network becomes less volatile in both directions.

Example: Huge Hive/HBD farm with $millions on each side.

Price of Hive goes up on exchanges due to demand. For simplicity let's say it goes up 10% from $1 to $1.10. However, Hive is still worth $1 on the internal market. Users on Hive can buy from this pool and dump tokens into the demand on exchanges. Price of Hive will go up, but not as fast.

On the flipside: price of Hive goes down on exchanges from dumping and the opposite happens. Now users have an incentive to buy cheap Hive and sell it on the internal market for HBD. If the spread is safe enough this HBD or Hive can easily be converted in either direction given the situation at hand.

Unfortunately this is all a quite moot point because the chance of it being integrated on the first layer with a hardfork seems very unlikely given the feedback I've received. Second layer solutions are possible but difficult to incentivize. I have a few ideas but I've already gone off the rails enough as is.

Conclusion

Is now a good time to buy Hive? Yeah, it's a great time... as long as you have a balanced portfolio and aren't hopelessly all-in already as many of us have been for years. The benefits of holding value outside of our favorite network in order to stabilize it can not be overstated. Difficultly of achieving such financial Zen equates to real psychological skill. Maybe one day I'll get the hang of it and rotate correctly, but for now I'm stuck in the mud along with the rest of the network.

It's always a darkest before the dawn situation with Hive. It seems to be that our constant state of being is either a massive euphoric pump, a slow bleed out, or infinite crab-walking at the bottom of the ocean. It would seem that our outflows are many and our inflows are riddled with hype and paper-handed fat-finger buy orders. It is what it is.



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42 comments
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I am currently moving my Hive from the old hivehustlers account into WBTC on Polygon using Tribaldex as the Hive offramp using MATIC. I am able to use the WBTC as collateral in Aave, which now has a trading feature for your collateral which is freaking awesome. I am also scooping up some Monero where I can. Delistings don't scare me when there is a good community trying to build an economy behind it.

I am being very conservative this round. I love to earn Hive and still around trying to do my thing, but after last cycle and having most of my value locked up, I am doing things differently. I am keeping the amount I need for resource credits to run everything. Doing it this way has helped me recoup some funds from my move as well as start up this 3D printing and farm thing I am working on, so it's all worth it.

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I actually feel like it is still good to buy more Hive because there is probability that the BTC halving will make the price go up again

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I think the timing is right. We all know what happens when the BTC halving is approaching. This year may not be as volatile as previous years, as the market has been maturing and BTC has been establishing itself, but no doubt its price will increase.... Let's hope Hive will benefit. Personally I see Hive in the $5 to $8 value range. Best regards!

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Hive in what range? Did u mean to say .50 - .80 ? Or u meant $5.00 - $8.00 this cycle after having? Seriously?

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This is just an assumption of a scenario in which Hive goes back up the same percentages and in an exaggerated way, but at most, Hive would reach $2 or $3 and deflate again. Also, be aware that Hive has infinite supply, so its value will always be inflationary. The only thing that can make the price of Hive grow in a stable way, is that the network becomes important, so that the demand increases. In the meantime, we will see Hive always at these values. This is why we must all promote our network in the right way and offer value to the outside world.

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I think technically MEXC isn't available in the US.

I assume you can use a VPN to get around that if they're not asking for KYC... but I guess that pipeline could be closed at some point... which I'm sure doesn't inspire confidence in Hive from people in the US.

I've used SimpleSwap.io through Peakd.com before to convert ETH to Hive... but it was a terrible experience, the transaction took something like 9 hours, which I'm sure was just them trying to get the best possible price to make a profit. You can see panicked people in their Telegram support channel pretty regularly.

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(Edited)

MEXC was officially available in the USA like a year ago but they folded like most other platforms due to regulatory scrutiny. I'm not sure why people are worried about the risk of using a VPN. I've never seen an exchange cut off usage without being able to withdraw money from the account (unlike traditional banking).

Last I checked it was very easy to buy Hive through wrapped assets on HiveEngine, as deposits on assets like MATIC and LTC are not only free but tilted in favor of the depositor. In many situations one can buy more Hive from HE than they would have gotten from a normal exchange. However unwrapping the SWAP.HIVE into Hive is a 0.75% fee or something which is higher than any exchange fee.

Regardless of all this the fact that Hive isn't listed on an exchange with a fiat ramp is hugely problematic for the average user.

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Yeah, that's fair. I haven't paid attention to exchanges so much so I didn't realise most would allow withdrawals if they changed the rules, but I agree that it's all problematic for the average user... every additional hurdle sees a percentage drop off of users.

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Since past month I started to swap all my HBD to Hive. Now all my HBD rewards I converted inyo Hive. I will keep doing this all this year, or at least until Hive be around 0.5-1 HBD range.

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This is going to be great and I believe as we move into buying hive, the btc network will help increase the value of hive. Let's dig in ..

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To be fair both Polycub and CubDefi now have a prime example of being the center point of liqudity for hive. Yet for some reason it still isn't integrated into the UX/UI design of the site which just floors me.

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There is no good time, there is no bad time. Everything in life is risk. However, a proper research is a better teacher to help in decision making.

Cheers

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"...a Hive/HBD AMM..."

I keenly feel the lack of a DEX. It is because there is no such pipeline from fiat to Hive that I don't use Hive as money. If I can't do it without involving banks, it's not real money to me, because it depends on untrustworthy thieves, and CEX's are equivalents to banks.

So, I have interest in projects like Rune (although I still can't find a route to fiats from Hive there), and lately TeraBlock came to my attention (the .01 Hive memo spam was definitely a factor). What thoughts have you on that prospective xDex?

Thanks!

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  1. Exchanges are indistinguishable from banks.
  2. The level of risk can be mitigated with smaller transfers through the intermediary.
  3. Creating a fiat ramp to Hive (or any blockchain) on a DEX requires access to a USD API that openly tells us where all the money is going. Which I'm not sure if that exists. It might be possible to opt-in to something like that using an app that directly gets permission from the phone to do things like scan Venmo transfers or notifications. But the attack vectors would perhaps be pretty serious.

I haven't heard of TeraBlock, but Rune has some promise.
Although looking at Thorchain they are already pulling weird shenanigans.
The ultimate breakthrough will always be vendors accepting crypto directly;
even if that means accepting payment on the inevitable black market.

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I agree with all.

TeraBlock seems worthy of mention because they say they have facilitated xfer of more than $50M to Hive from Splinterlands. Given your gaming interest, and in matters of such economic import, I thought to mention it to you.

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I feel like all I see lately is negative sentiment on hive. A lot of the Discords I hang out in are nothing but complaining and whining. It feels pretty low right now. I'm sure it can get worse though.

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It can get lower but I'm not sure that it will.
2020 was insane and unique.
Several toxic whales unloaded everything while BTC was going x4 from $10k-$40k.
Which was actually good for the network but bad for the price and morale.

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(Edited)

One thing that I realized some time back was that the massive pumps we saw in former times were very likely directly fueled by Upbit itself. We had hundreds of millions and even billions (!) of volume in some of those candles which could almost certainly only be created by an exchange. This speculation is imo strengthened by the fact that in April 2023 they moved almost 100M into a "cold storage" address and magically we didn't have a single large pump after that as can be seen here:

Personally I think the times of crazy pumps is over for Hive unless there is some massive adoption in the future. That is both good and bad, but it's probably the main reason why we have been stuck in the 30s for so long. The chart is clearly indicating a breakout to the 50s soon. So buying Hive might still pay off.

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Hive price can get pumped via buying a couple hundred thousand tokens off the market.
I've personally seen this happen a few separate times.
It can be done even with limit orders.
The bots know that liquidity is gone after a short time and market makers push the price up to reflect that.
It takes very little USD to push the price of Hive up.
Especially at this level.

All that being said, UpBit's massive stack is troubling.

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Yes, but these pumps weren't about a couple of 100 grands. These candles had billions(!!) In volume

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(Edited)

Billions according to the API of a super untrustworthy exchange who's been known to aggressively wash trade.
The data aggregators list UpBit as one of the least trustworthy sources of information.
It's still undeniable how many coins the exchange itself holds.

Honestly there's a lot of evidence to suggest that the biggest pump from last cycle came from exploiting Splinterlands with bots. These bots were spending 3 Hive to create an account and then paying $10 to farm Splinterlands rewards. It's not a coincidence that the cost of 3 Hive just so happened to peak around $10.

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Good point, but still I am persuaded by the chart I posted above showing the stop of big volume candles after their transfer. Also the volume seems to be quite believable with binance having had 200M daily candle in the 1.4$ price range...

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Fair enough but why are we assuming that anything has changed?
There's just as good a chance that volume picks back up in the exact same way.

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because of this:

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For me it's just too much of a coincidence that the volume spikes completely stopped after this move. My interpretation is that Upbit used customer funds for market manipulation

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Putting that much money into cold storage is quite simply the thing that should be done in any and every scenario.
The market can be manipulated by a tiny fraction of those coins.
If you think they were allocating user funds to pump the price...
Then you believe they were taking random Bitcoin/USDT from their clients to pump the market?
If April 18th is when they stopped then it means the books are balanced and they still have all that stake.
I think you really have to walk through this step by step to see if the theory is possible.
If manipulation stopped at 46 cent Hive shouldn't it be very easy to return to this level organically?
That's a 40% bounce from here.

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yeah, it's more speculation than knowing. It just seems like an odd coincidence. That said, I am very bullish on Hive with all that is coming. And if Splinterlands was what pumped Hive in 2021, then there is a good chance that it could do it again with them releasing a lot of new stuff soon and @aggroed on Apple TV next month...

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ha yeah I was thinking about that today
was gonna sell some VOUCHERS but decided against it

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so fun fact, yesterday we had 145M in volume on Upbit - this surpassed the 128M volume from April 18th 2023 when they moved their Hive... This is a really good development; see you at 50-60 cents in a couple days

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Ah would you look at that... Who'd a thunk it :D

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Below 1 USD is always a buy for me. I like that "crab walking at the bottom of the ocean." I think that's an appropriate description of what's going on here on Hive.

27 whales? Thanks for that number. I also moved from Binance to MEXC. I don't like facial verification.

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Yeah my "fair price" for the token has been 80 cents since 2018.
Anything less is a discount imo.

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Until that "fair price," I still have a long opportunity to grow my account.

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We'd also expect many prominent figures coming forward with how to tweak the tokenomics to 'fix' the system when in reality the only fix is to keep grinding and push forward into the bull market.

Indeed. We aren't in a great spot, but we damn sure aint in a bad one. 1 thing i always acknowledge when shit gets a little gloomy is the fact that we are the longest running scaled web3 social (even though HIVE does a lot more than social). Successful decentralization is a long game.

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I think the sharks are circling in the waters for crypto that’s for sure. Trying to gobble up off ramps and on ramps for assets they don’t want to exist. I’ve got hope that we can continue to make new ones and I’ll certainly have to keep an eye on the MXC exchange. You’re able to connect your American bank account to it with no issues? That would be my only worry once they find out it’s from the US they say peace out.

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You’re able to connect your American bank account to [MEXC]?

Absolutely not; that is quite ill-advised.

I just send crypto from MEXC to Coinbase.
Mostly LTC from a stack I acquired in olden days.
LTC can be moved around for less than 1 penny and the liquidity pools are massive.

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Hahah ok solid thanks for that tip before I made a huge nistake! LOL

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I use Ionomy and that has even worse liquidity. You can go weeks without your order being executed.

Some years ago people were asking the developers for a listing on Coinbase. I think Coinbase need you to standardize your wallet to their system to make it easy for them. But nothing happened.

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Ionomy was fun for a couple weeks but the liquidity was such a disaster I gave up.

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(Edited)

To me, Hive is like my go-to magazine or newspaper, with lots of pictures, a carryover from Steemit. Somehow, my two-cents worth has morphed into a couple of thousand US Dollars worth of Hive Money, with an $.11 upvote. And entertainment with other coin collectors. And, I support Hive and want it to be strong & successful and survive. Thanks for sharing your work, edicted - @edicted.
170514377347d00d69f35a27n.jpg1.$.jpg

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I went rogue. I pulled my precious HBD out of savings. I feel shame

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