Open Mithril Development Framework Proposal

Sharing this to see what other more technically inclined people think about the proposal. I personally wouldn't mind making life easier for "non-devs" to get started working on different projects and using varying open-source tools, some times I even have to ask for help for SQL queries, lol.

Although I don't understand it all I think it's a good initiative to make things simpler on Hive.
Investments and risks are explained well.

targeted community engagement.

What do you mean by this?

Orator, Co-host - @alohaed
The Voice of Hive! This only should be a reason to upvote the proposal 😃
The Hive podcasts and interviews are very interesting and entertaining!

Similar to what Acidyo said, I would like to see what developers and more technical people have to say about the "usefulness" of the final product.

But I gotta say, being a project manager myself, I think this proposal is very well structured with a clear scope, budget allocation and KPIs so I'm inclined to vote for it.

I have known @ecoinstant and collaborated on many different projects and initiatives over the last seven year. He and @thecrazygm (who I haven't worked with directly, since Eco is a great project manager) have been super response to my thoughts and feedback during the develop of the tools already mentioned.
Eco has also been my project manager on various pieces of work for Hive SBI over the last few years and some of that work owes it's completion to his untiring efforts to make sure things were moving forward, especially when I was the bottleneck!

So we r building stuff and open source it! Sounds fun.

Most if not all campaigning happens behind closed doors. However, the biggest disconnect between technically competent hive stakers like @blocktrades and non technical like @acidyo is obvious. Right now the only thing the non-technical can do is see if the technical like it or not. So the next step due to how busy the technical are is to campaign out to them in DMs, which they are already too busy to see. And with how many technical there are, you can just imagine how many private DMs there are.

If possible I would highly urge @ecoinstant to be part of an AMA along with @thecrazygm so that everyone can get their questions in. Writing a proposal while is not easy does not completely highlight the competency of the team.

For instance, replacing Beem with a new Python library is a BIG and much-needed move. @brianoflondon is someone who uses Beem regularly and has had administrative trouble with Beem. This is something I believe he is highly competent to assess.

I would also add that if there are new devs who want to build on hive, Beem is very dated and most people have trouble working with it.

Case-in-point: I was a judge for a Hive Hackathon taking place in India, and of the 22 projects assessed, not one was built with Python. Considering that Python is the number one language used in the world, this is a travesty, as we are unable to cater to anyone who uses Python.

@ecoinstant Maybe put the date of the AMA in the proposal, this way everyone knows WHEN and WHERE to ask you questions.

Thanks for the clearly formulated proposal.
You got my support.

I love the risk management section
One thing I would love to see here is an educated guess on the likelyhood of the risks (for example the scope creep).

Good luck!

I have been discussing this proposal privately with the team (hence me being listed as an advisor).

I’ll continue giving my honest feedback and suggestions.

Many projects fail because of poor coordination, not lack of talent. A strong project manager makes sure everything actually comes together. You're so right

It would be great to see cooperate with the work @techcoderx is doing for Aioha. That is pretty important I'd argue on the JS/frontend side. Among other more "biased" opinions, I'd say Python isn't the best language of choice for new projects or apps. Everything we are working on would be in JS or Golang. In addition, it would be great to also include some of the golang work we are doing as we are heavily pushing Hive's golang libraries and tools forward.

The proposal is too vague and too wide.

I'm glad you are taking the Open Source approach. Have you discussed under which license or licenses are you going to develop the framework? Thank you! !PIZZA !BBH !HUESO !DIY

@cpol just sent you a DIY token as a little appreciation for your post dear @ecoinstant! Feel free to multiply it by sending someone else !DIY in a comment :) You can do that x times a day depending on your balance so:

Don't be shy - share some DIY!

You can query your personal balance by !DIYSTATS

Keep up the great works guys. I am still learning on the intricacies of Hive and hope to be of help someday. Wishing you guys all the best !BBH

😊👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

!PIZZA

would be great to see the different devs and builders working together

Cool

Not a tech guy but what I read sounds like a decent help for "normal" people to create things - sharing for more discussion.

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We need as many builders as possible on HIVE. I used to think of marketing and onboarding as the way to get HIVE mainstream. Over time I realized that having more developers trying out DAPPs can be just as effective. Few great DAPPs can bring in large number of users and retain them for a long time. @splinterlands and @leofinance creating so many accounts is a perfect example of what is possible.

Having more developers increase our chances of going viral through one of our DAPPs. Anyone can take a look on blockchain and see your commitment and history on the blockchain. I fully support this Proposal and it is things like this that give me hope for the future of HIVE!

Why does this need more than one dev? Is one person unable to handle this simple task?

Most devs are only going to use a few basic operations anyways. Most of these operations will not even be signed-which implies they can use curl or other similar mechanism without the need for beem. Still, between signed and unsigned api requests, Most operations will unlikely need any fixing so this is a part time job, perhaps even a do nothing job. $100k? Absolutely not.

Why do you need the DHF to give you roughly 50-60k in hivepower for testing? This reflects that people don't see the project as worth delegating RC in. There are only a handful of tx that are resource intensive. Ether the tx works and the RCs are used, or it fails and the tx aren't used. If, say, there is a sporadic bug in account creation whose cause needs to be isolated to then be debugged, I am sure there are not shortage of whales who would delegate the RCs. So there is no need or justification for this, this is likely an auxilary income stream that has nothing to do with maintaining beam. Additionally, you could invest your own pay into resolving the issue, then reclaim the investment.

Why do you need $250/month in a server if you are hosting on github. Even if you need a personal site, just host it on a local computer. You are only dealing with a chain of some 8k active users, and only a small niche does any coding. Not sure what the cost is for a static ip address in south America, but raspberri pis are still $35 (maybe a bit more for import taxes) and that's all you really need. I'm sure you ca reduce this budget by 80%.

Travel? This part is completely unnecessary. Stay home, or travel at your own expense. Marketing, no. This isn't the pope venue to market development tools. The chain only has some 8k+- active users, only a small niche are devs. Beem doesn't need to do anything for marketing except be mentioned in the hive developers webpage or discord. And to be honest, if you are planning to maintain the code, it shouldn't cost you a dime to produce code examples given that is residual code from maintaining the project. Nor do you have to make videos, let alone $4500 worth.

Please keep your valueplan styled scamming ass away from the dhf. Blocktrades wrote that he wants to use his success for altruism, and the dhf seems to have become the source of his charitable givings against literally all better judgment-and one has to question why he is funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars to shysters across the third world, particularly countries that may be trade sanctioned. Does blocktrades have connections to the CIA? Who knows. Even SBF calls the water well projects a scam. Blocktrade is going to repeat the same mistakes that his bitshares project had if he doesn't exercise financial restraint.

We're doing well, busy on a lot of projects. As I've made more money, I've grown increasingly altruistic, however, and I think we've made enough to plan the project I'm truly passionate about nowadays (a web of trust based system), so I'm less sure about doing an IPO for BlockTrades nowadays, unless it turns out that development costs for the project are more than expected.

-Dan Notestein aka blocktrades
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=21509.msg339497#msg339497

The reason we have beem is because because signing tx tend to be arcane info. It's nice to have, but not worth 100k to upkeep. All developers need is to see, step by step, how a transaction is signed, with dummy initial values and expected outputs each step of the way, and ween themselves off of depending on other peoples code. Of course with a warning about seeking CSPRNG k values. It's literally that simple.The code is likely already in beem, Just Isolate it, do as instructed, and beem can die and a 100k expense can be avoided. That's how the real world works.

It's fine by me.
The project is well-written, the costs are costed, and the objectives are clear.
Just voted.

I've put in a couple of merges on Beem (which is the most comprehensive library for Hive on Python) recently and taken a look at it.

It does need significant work to pull it up to modern standards with typing and the whole way it handles dates needs to be made timezone aware.

I think perhaps the proposal is too wide in terms of what you hope you can do, but we need significant extra work in these areas I agree.

I'm voting for this.

I have read through the proposal and looked at some of the linked pages. My comments/questions are oriented in the same vein as I would apply to any project seeking DHF funding for development or marketing. Essentially I am aiming to ensure everyone is clear about what exactly is being offered, how the success will be measured, is the offer good value and whether there is demand/need for the work in the first place.

In my previous DHF proposal for @strategizer that was oriented towards market research, I pointed out that it is often futile to invest in any kind of development or marketing without first really knowing that there will be a return on it. This requires some form of research, up front. Unfortunately, it seems that many people on Hive are not so enthusiastic about measurements of necessity and success being applied to DHF payouts, so the proposal did not get funded.

In any case, if we are concerned about the goal of growing and optimising Hive, we at least need to appreciate where the low-hanging fruit are and how to invest sustainably, rather than just throwing money in a direction we imagine might be helpful. So this means understanding the needs of the target audience and catering to them. In the case of developers, it's clear that Hive is not providing an attractive enough package to attract them in droves. While VSC adds a great deal of potential from a developer perspective, we still need solid libraries and most fundamentally, great education and marketing.

As with most technical/creative tasks, every single person has a differing capacity to complete them and the quality/usefulness will vary depending on a variety of factors.

In the case of this DHF proposal, I am not 100% clear what specific problems are being addressed and in what way. Is the problem that development resources on Hive are not professionally enough documented or coded? Is the problem that non developers don't have access to ways to build on Hive? Which exact aspects of this will the DHF project solve?

I recall reading direct mention of forking/improving on code libraries, plus of marketing them via podcasts. I am not clear on what new micro services would be developed and what the potential market for them is. The examples of existing micro services are not likely to be very exciting to most people in the ever evolving Web 3 world - they are typically very Hive oriented and not particularly cutting edge.

In essence, you seem to be asking for money to pay for developer/admin time, to perform marketing and to operate hardware - but there is no mention of what that will exactly result in.

• How many hours of labour are the people being paid by the DHF commiting towards the work in return?
• How efficiently do they work as compared to a contractor from one of the marketplaces for such work?
• What hardware is required? What specifications? Is the quoted/requested figure a good value deal?
• What new micro services are planned to be developed?
• What evidence is there that micro services are valued by target audiences on and off Hive? (What anaytics data can corroborate this - as a minimum).
• What marketing strategy exists to ensure that any podcasts or media produced from this project are effective and draw in target audience eyeballs? The highly competitive world of 'online attention' is full of podcasts and channels with almost no viewers.

In summation - while I want to see developer resources drastically improved on Hive, the details are important.

Cheers!

Why not use the Hive-Engine DAO to pay for engine related upgrades?

I have read the proposal several times and I really struggle to understand what you are exactly planning to do. I'm not a developer but few are on hive and I think you should break it down so that everybody gets what you want to offer. I'm sure that would help to get more people on board :-)

Why are the funds requested in just 11 days? My understanding is that this proposal is for a years worth of work with the salary and other numbers? Yet the funding request is set for just 11 days. If this was longer, it'd be easier to support since we can always revoke support if the community feels like things aren't getting done, but we are basically paying upfront here for no guarantee.

So many Hivains screem that we need more developers...well, here you go guys. This here will make Hive much easier to work on and Developers will be able to go out there and test, build and just have fun.