ever feel like you just don't WANT to help? do it anyway 😏

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(Edited)

(personal note - skip down if you care not... lol)

Before I begin, let me say that I wrote the previous post because a sweet Hiver, who is a wonderful writer, was in need of help, and reached out to me. (I just let out the biggest sigh just now 😂) Not cuz I'm asked for help - but because the NEED for help is never-ending. whew.

So... I did what I could. I wrote the post, and people rallied, and some were calm and some not so calm lol - and then people came publicly, and more came privately to brainstorm. We have an idea, and I think parts of it have been used before? - and parts are new? - and there is a bit of hope and now I'm sitting down to write it all out for you and.....

I honestly just don't feel like it LOLOL

That is the God's honest truth. 😨 I'm freaking tired, man. hahaha

Are we all not just so... freaking... TIRED?!?!?!


Cuz this is not the first attempt to fix these problems, and it will certainly not be the last. This might fail like other attempts before it, and what is the POINT!? When we can do ALL this work (and it WILL be WORK) only to have one (or two? or ALL???) person(s) throw a wrench into the mix, stir up animosity and division - and boom. BOOM.

And the answer is... Cuz it's who I am, and what I do. There are days when I HATE THAT. Because I do NOT want to take the risk again. I do not want to exert the energy ALL OVER again, with no guarantees.

But here I am writing, thinking loudly over the other thoughts: "Who cares if it fails? Who cares? It might be the failure that leads us to the next idea that actually succeeds."

cool. here we go.


CONCEPT:

In America, we have unemployment insurance that comes out of every paycheck. We do this so that if you lose your job, you can apply for assistance temporarily into the system that you have supported - for the time when you need it.

In the same way, I, @dreemsteem, have created an account (@oopseedaisee) for the sole purpose of boosting morale on Hive by helping to offset any valid downvote repercussions on decent posts. (Of course "decent posts" is a subjective qualification - but reputation, post quality, downvote effect, and account age will be some deciding factors in determining the assistance granted.)


Posts of this nature can get very lengthy and overwhelming. I decided to present it in the form of a Q&A session, so that you can skip through to questions that pertain to your interest! Hope this helps!


Can anyone get help?

Yes, ANY person in the community that needs help can request it, as long as they supported the initiative PRIOR TO their request. Think its a good idea? Support it now, BEFORE you need it. (Please do not support it NOW.. read the post FIRST. LOL)


TWO TYPES OF SUPPORT

  • GENERAL SUPPORT: This is for people who think they may need the help in the future. Assign a 1% beneficiary reward (no more, no less) on your posts to @oopseedaisee, AND delegate 1 HP (no more, no less) to @oopseedaisee.

This is a small enough percentage, that it should allow for anyone to be able to afford it. Hopeful that a little bit adds up for the good of the community.

  • MAJOR SUPPORT. This is for people who would likely never need or request help, but would love to give the account greater voting power to help those in need. Assign a 1% of post rewards to @oopseedaisee as beneficiary AND delegate AT LEAST 1000 HP to the @oopseedaisee account.

The reason for these small, tokenary delegations and beneficiary amounts - is that it allows us to SEE at a moment's notice WHO is actually invested in helping the community, WHO is publicly aligning with support, and... who is not. We are invested in those who help, and will use the support raised FOR those who do so. Delegations also allow us to see the DATES when people became supporters, which is important.


What happens if someone drops their support?

Feel free to support the best option for you. If you feel that this initiative doesn't align with your objectives, please do drop your support. Removing the delegation will negate ANY ABILITY to receive any help or disbursement from this account - final.


How will you keep track of who is supporting and who is not?

Each week, an admin on the account will publish a weekly post reporting (1) who has been affected by downvotes/and has received help from the account. (2) show copies of the data received from affected Hivers from the PREVIOUS week's post (3) show wallet transactions to affected accounts for transparency and accountability (4) provide the opportunity for people to leave comments on the new post requesting help for the next week.


What if I'm blacklisted by Hivewatchers?

No matter what you think about Hivewatchers, they do perform a service for Hive. Do they do it perfectly? Nope. Because spoiler alert - they're human just like you. But their input will be used to determine the eligibility of the one asking for support. They are not the final say, but they will carry significant weight.


What do I do to ask for support?

Comment on the most recent post of @oopseedaisee (there are no posts there yet, this initiative has not started.) with proof of your affected post.


What serves as proof of my affected post?

  • the URL of the affected post.
  • screenshot of proof of beneficiary reward on post, and 1HP delegation
  • screenshot of downvotes. (yes, these will be verified, but help the process along please)
  • any pertinent info you'd like to share.
    note: person who downvoted will be tagged by the @oopseedaisee account to allow for a valid reason given for the downvote.
    Failure to provide truthful information will result in request being denied.

How do I receive the support?

The @oopseedaisee account will use available liquid HBD to pay out author rewards the person would have received from the upvote that was reversed. Half of the author rewards will be given as HBD to the wallet. The other half will be converted from HBD to HP, and sent to their account. This prevents further reversal action from downvoting accounts since further downvotes cannot touch anything sent directly to wallets/accounts.


This sounds like a TON of admin work. Are you just volunteering the time for this?

We will be making a proposal for the DHF ($35 HBD daily) to cover the cost of the admin, and provide some of the assistance for reward reallocation. Three admins (@ $10 HBD each, daily) plus $5 HBD daily to be allocated towards weekly assistance. Any amount of HBD that was remaining in the account at the end of each month, would be powered up to HP on Hive Power Up day, strengthening the vote.
(the DHF proposal has NOT been made yet. We are waiting until we have feedback from comment section, and can adjust based on that.)


What do you need to have a vote for? Who do you use it on?

Getting caught in the cross-fire of a whale war is demoralizing, discouraging and simply "bad" for the platform. Not only do we want to restore rewards for worthy posts, but we'd like to boost morale and bring a little cheer back to the platform. The week that a post receives assistance, the user will also receive daily votes for up to 7 days, provided that the post is of decent quality. (manual subjective evaluation)


How MUCH of a vote do they get?

The account has ten 100% upvotes, just like every other account on Hive. Up to ONE 100% daily vote (and not to exceed one vote) will go on any applicable post /comment from @oopseedaisee to help build the account's power. The remaining votes will be distributed to all weekly "helped" accounts equally, until the value of the ten 100% votes are dispersed daily.


This sounds like @ihealyou. Is it the same?

I have no idea, to be honest. @wesphilbin shared this with me when we talked, and he said it was similar, but not the same. I don't know how it differs, but if anyone would like to offer some reasons why it's not around anymore? Perhaps we can avoid any mistakes that were made? Problems that was caused? I'd love insight! Drop into the comment section and feel free to tag me 😊


Who is going to be in charge of the votes?

This will not be an automated upvote. This project is a human-powered job, requiring manual evaluation. One of the admins on the account will be in charge of daily upvotes and weekly distributions. One in charge of compiling data, and writing the weekly posts. One in charge of vetting all the requests.


Do you already have the admins chosen?

In my opinion, the admin role requires humility, trustworthiness, gentleness, integrity, dependability, and attention to detail, and most importantly ,THE TIME to do the work. I have three people in mind that can share the role and would most likely be willing to do the work. They are people that I would be willing to trust with my name/ reputation. (and that is absolutely the highest honor I give anyone).


Are you the only one with the keys to @oopseedaisee?

As of right this second? Yes. But, the four people who gave the most input on this initiative will also be holding copies of the keys as of tomorrow (May 15, 2023). They are: @snook, @wesphilbin, @samsmith1971 and @penderis. This will allow for transparency, accountability. and responsibility in case of an unfortunate, unforeseen event.


Do we get any benefits for delegating? or adding beneficiary rewards?

As of right now, you get the benefit of helping the community and ensuring that you have access to assistance should you need it in the future. Tada! 🤩 I have spoken to @trostparadox privately, as he reached out after my post to say he was encouraged by conversation he saw happening and to reassure me that there are others on Hive proactively working to improve anti-abuse methods. I am a firm believer that multiple options to help is a great opportunity for people to seek the care they need. While our initiatives will remain independent of one another, we reserve the right to link arms in the future to maximize morale on Hive! Please do stay tuned for any updates by him!


So you're building up the account, but what happens if you end the service? Where does all that HP go?

Upon the dissolution of the account, (if the initiative is no longer deemed necessary by the community) the HP will be powered down to liquid Hive. 50% of the liquid HIVE will be divided among/ distributed back to MAJOR supporters according to the amount of time they have supported. The remaining 50% will be divided among/distributed back to GENERAL supporters, also based on length of support.


If I give more than 1HP delegation, can I increase the dissolution distribution alloted to me in the future?

No.


Why did you choose the name @oopseedaisee

Blame @penderis for that one, and blame @wesphilbin for adding in all the ee's hahaha. We liked the name @oopseedaisee because we want to keep it light. Though bad things happen, sometimes it's just an unfortunate oversight that can hopefully be fixed. By basically giving people the benefit of the doubt, giving grace, but offering help also - we think its the best approach to moving forward on Hive with hope. If we named it something harsh, every time someone thought about the project, or wrote the name of the project, it would just further enforce the negativity. We want even our name to keep it all about harmony.


What if the DHF proposal doesn't get passed?

We did think of other ways that we could try to take upvotes and maneuver the account in a way to be sure that our admins got the support they needed. But after careful thought, it is not wise to do so, nor is it clean and easy.

Simply put, if this proposal isn't valuable to Hive, then we happily will step aside and wait for a better alternative to be proposed and passed. This is merely our attempt to help provide a solution. Perhaps, others would prefer alternative methods. We wish the best of luck to anyone who would like to try!

(the DHF proposal has NOT been made yet. We are waiting until we have feedback from comment section, and can adjust based on that.)


I delegated too late, now I can't get help?

Correct. Not on THAT post, but feel free to delegate and maintain that delegation and 1% beneficiary, and we will be able to assist on the NEXT instance.

Even if you don't ever use it, you're contributing to the healthy and culture of Hive for a more positive platform where people help people - JUST for the sake of helping people. I think that's a win/win/win/win.


Oops, I mistakenly removed that delegation!

You mistakenly went to your wallet, clicked on delegations, clicked to remove a 1HP delegation to us, and then accidentally confirmed that you wanted to that? 😉

Well, that's very unfortunate. lol

If you can show within 24 hours that it happened, I'm fairly certain that it can be rectified. Once. 😏


I lost $2 but you only gave me $0.37

You are very welcome for that 🤗
We can give what we have. And whatever we have, we share amongst those affected. It is not a perfect system, but its the system we offer as help to the community.


What if your upvotes get VERY huge and dividing them amongst the affected is MUCH MORE than what they lost?

The system will be tweaked against abuse as we evaluate it practically. I'm known for opening up discussions to the community. We will have no problem writing an open post to the community to ask their opinion of the service from time to time. If adjustments are requested, and seem to make common sense, we'll simply adjust in a way that is for the benefit of the community as a whole.


Why did you post this on your account, Dreem? and not the @oopseedaisee account?

I have much more visibility on this account. It will be reblogged onto the @oopseedaisee account, and it has also been named as the 100% beneficiary. Please do feel free to reblog and tell anyone that you think would benefit. I would HOLD OFF on delegating until we know if the DHF passes the proposal. Yes, there are delegations already, but that's only because it was on our mind. Do as I say, not as I do. 😂


Can I upvote the weekly report post for some rewards?

Sure, we'd love that! The normal curation rewards from Hive will apply. And the reward of knowing that you're helping an account grow that will help the community and possibly help you in the future. Tada! 😍 In all honesty, this is for the community, by the community. If you want to help - it's a group effort. If you have more to give and you want to give for the sake of giving. Please do so! But don't give just to receive back. Just give, in whatever way you feel is best.


How can I help?

We literally had most of this hashed out yesterday, early morning. It was crazy how fast stuff happened. lol So, as of right now? My best guess is to share the word, support the proposal, and keep Hive happy. If you have a better idea - don't talk talk talk. go for it.


Any other questions?

Ask away! I'll try to read and respond to them all in the comment section.



https://images.ecency.com/p/2FFvzA2zeqoVPgRCnRzbu6rj6tCWHWVCA9ZaKB4ZphKR951Ppn3VyhEjsrqQT1RUCksLkQUjnDnqBetu7Rr1wszpez4hLr5UAYbtbFq4wfGPeGifDTiPvj7JryvmC.webp?format=webp&mode=fit

whale by phtorxp, edited by me



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I apologize if this tag annoys you - it will be the last - I just thought that since so many people were invested in the problem post HHAHA maybe the potential solution would be of interest?

Please - I am not saying this is the great saving solution.
It's an option, and its more than just talk and barking.

if it doesn't work - no harm, no foul. but please give some criticism where we can improve it - or.... let it fuel your own ideas to try to solve it. I'm good with either! thanks all :)

@deraaa @themarkymark @xeldal @acidyo @samsmith1971 @snook @wesphilbin @penderis @deeanndmathews @nonameslefttouse @ura-soul @kencode @tengolotodo @trostparadox @coquicoin @owasco @tattoodjay @silversaver888 @jacoalberts @nkemakonam89 @unorgmilitia @hylene74

and if you're not in the mood... i totally get it. lol
you do you . much love ❤️

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Nothing to apologize for... Thank you for tagging me!!

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Hey -- I'm in.

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hey sweets...

doesn't look like I'm on the right path here... a lot of people (smarter than me in the ways of Hive's inner workings hahaha) are thinking that I don't have the right plans here - and i'm ok with that!

because I know that there are more plans to have other people solving this issue. so I think I shouldn't try to push for this when it's not really a good plan for rewards and people's losses.

I didn't (and still don't hahah) see all that. I still see it as a great plan LOL But that's exactly why I'm not the one to run this. Because anything that I do - any decision I make - any tweak I make will CONTINUE in this vein. And if its not hitting the target? It's just gonna keep not hitting the target

so I gladly bow out... and wait for others to come up with better solutions. Because I sincerely cannot ask anyone to be an admin in good conscience, and NOT guarantee that they will be compensated for their hard work, rain or shine. I just think that's probably my bare minimum requirement. And if the DHF can't guarantee that - then people have to rely on the good graces of whales. And as we can see from past history, whales are not perfect. And mistakes are made. and pride gets bruised. and anger makes for bad choices... and for that reason, I can't put any admin into a situation where their compensation isn't guaranteed.

and without the working power of admins (that will do the vast majority of the work here) - this plan has no fuel! lol

so... i tried. but it won't work.... so I must pass the baton.

thanks for all your investment into this whole issue. It's people like you (and others from the posts) that make Hive have a heart - with the way that you care deeply!!!

love to you!!!

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Love to you too ... it is just refreshing to have seen the effort ... I have been praying about this issue for some time (because no matter how big the whale, I know Who made every ocean)... so, another path will be found ...

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(Edited)

@dreemsteem, it was good chatting with you.

I’ll try to post an update soon about what I and a few others are working on in this regard.

Others might be able to provide some better technical details, but it seems the key-sharing you mentioned is something you would want to do with multi-sig instead of actually sharing the private keys. I’m not sure the status of that feature, though.

In the short-term, you can delegate posting authority and/or active key authority to the other admins. That's safer than sharing the acting keys themselves.

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thank you @trostparadox - sounds like a better idea to wait for the multi-sig for the added security in that :) I appreciate all your insight and your willingness to share with me. And I think a lot of people will love to see more options out there that are set to help the community! Looking forward to it - and please tag me in it!!!

Night to you! thanks again!

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Did I miss the link to be able to vote on the DHF DooHickey?

And thank Goodness YOU had to write this and not me :D

HUGE HUGS!

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you did not miss it... i needed to get the post out first, so that if I needed to tweak the proposal, I could get some insight inthe comment section to see what to add/ subtract hehehe

and lady.
this post.

my brain is like "can we be done now?" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I love you - and thanks for you!!!

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Maybe add that to the bottom of the post or in the DHF question part? So others reading this do not go looking for it?

and I bet LOLLL

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Downvote insurance.

I'll keep my opinions to myself at the moment so I do not contribute to swaying any others. And I'll watch how things develop.

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making me wait. nice. ok, i can dig it LOL

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Create a problem, offer a solution but charge a fee.

How can I know the problem wasn't created intentionally in order to collect fees? I'm not accusing anyone of any wrongdoings. I'm pointing out the fact insurance scams exist.

Take one account, downvote people. Offer insurance with another account, upvote people. Skim profits. Keep them paranoid and paying. Business is slow? More downvotes. Brief periods of no downvotes, still collecting fees. Competitors roll in. More downvotes.

There's the worst-case scenario.

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Sure, I mean I guess there is a way to incite fear in anything to scare people.

quick sell hive... the price is going down. then it's lower, big investors buy at a great price and push the price back up for their own profit.

all kinds of scams exist. it doesn't stop people from choosing their best case scenario.

right now the choice is... "you got a downvote, so what?"

that just doesn't seem like a great plan for the future 🤷

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(Edited)

Okay.

Your post is asking for feedback.

I presented a problem. There is a solution. Figure it out.

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I have the solution but I think it might be a bit too simple for you to believe...

Don't create an insurance scam 🤣

which I haven't.

The details are literally pay 1 HP and 1% beneficiary post rewards.

If people would feel more comfortable with 0.01 HP AND 0.01% beneficiary rewards...I'm good with that!

The project doesn't keep any of those funds and at the time of dissolution...it's returned to the community. Literally nothing stays with the account. So I'm not understanding where we have created a problem and are charging people through fear.

I'm not being argumentative...I sincerely don't see where we are making money from a scam?

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(Edited)

I wasn't accusing you of any wrongdoings and made that perfectly clear.

I highlighted the fact it is a worst-case scenario stemming from one of the oldest tricks in the books.

Opening the door to this sort of thing, this way, could potentially create a problem similar to or worse than the problem intended to be solved.

Perhaps framing it as insurance is the wrong way to go about it, but this is not my project, so it is not for me to say. Coming up with suitable alternatives based on my personal preference is not my responsibility.

In its current form, I am neither for nor against it.

My criticisms of this project should not be interpreted as personal attacks.

Have a nice day.

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I know you weren't accusing me.. lol nor was I taking personal offense. I am happy to hear your feedback but show me what you have a problem with and I can address it. I can't address fear.

I'm saying I'm not sure how to defend against something that isnt set up as a scam, and isnt presented in a way to make any profits.

If the word insurance is an issue... yeah, I am totally fine with taking it out if that makes it feel more attractive, but the principle still remains the same.

An account set up that the community supports in order to help defray the negative impact of whale wars on accounts that have nothing to do with the war.

As far as the fear of scam, I don't know how to change something in the proposal in order to make people feel more at ease.

I feel like if people are afraid, they should definitely not support it. I wouldn't know how to reassure people that it's exactly what it says it is, without trying to make it seem like I'm actually trying to scam them lol

That was my point to your comment. and no I won't have a good day . .I'll have a good night... 😝

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Thinking I had time to make things a little more clear, I added a line to my previous response indicating my concerns have less to do with this project and more to do with where it could lead.

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I hear what you're saying...
well based on the feedback so far, I've given a start for others to take this idea and probably implement something that feels safer for the community.

I often think that things that feel safer are often ideas that just benefit the small minority. But again, whatever is proposed with the right backing will get passed.

As long as the community gets some relief from the crossfire, and as long as morale improves, I guess we will take what we can get! lol

I added my help to the mix, so now let's see what others can do to improve on it 😊

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(Edited)

Another scenario:

Since the post indicates it's insured (beneficiary), and if the goal was to alienate members with downvotes (not saying this service is behind the downvotes, talking about outside forces), those posts could be avoided, resulting in far more accounts impacted as those wishing to alienate members with upvotes that attract countervotes seek out other targets.

In general, several accounts must dish out a percentage of their post rewards well into the future while not being targeted, resulting in this service constantly collecting a post percentage from a large percentage of posts unnecessarily.

If they end the service, they could become a target, making the decision to remain insured permanent.

New accounts would be unaware and could become likely targets.

Everyone eventually becomes insured while majority pay continuously for no reason. At that point 1% coming in far exceeds potential loss prevented by this service.

The promise of paying out is irrelevant. When will it be shut down and why? There's no way of knowing in advance if the issue this system is attempting to counter will stop or start. Therefore one is likely to assume it remains running at all times.

The service is not selling the fear. The downvotes and potential loss sell the fear naturally. In other words, service sells peace of mind stemming from fear of the unknown.

The service naturally shifts from being an insurance policy to a tax collector. Majority of the community pays for the poor decisions of a few, even if they're not making poor decisions; poor decisions that could again start without notice.

Community is expected to trust account owner blindly though anything could happen to those funds including the owner experiencing issues beyond their control.

Community has effectively downvoted themselves 1% for something majority might not need, plus pays $35 per day, and loses access of up to and even more than 1000HP per account resulting in thousands of dollars worth of potential reward allocation locked up that can only be used in case of emergency and disaster relief. The most "generous" when combined are disabling a portion of their stake, leading to smaller votes and fewer post rewards across the board when used normally.

Added all up and tied together, potential incoming funds far exceed outgoing, especially when service is scaled up providing insurance to many.

Some buying insurance were never downvoted yet still attracted by what amounts to a sales pitch offering peace of mind. Some will feel like they need to pay in order to appear helpful in front of their peers, since those not paying were frowned upon in the message.

Noobs and those concerned about losing a couple bucks here and there, possibly those with low amounts of HP which make up the majority of people, pay the most, since they're the ones mainly being targeted by the service's message.

This service comes at a cost with a lot of hidden charges when factoring in everything and they all add up over time. If I'm not mistaken, this service came about after some accounts first received an upvote which was then countered with a margin of error of a few cents in most cases, which came at no real cost to the account.


Which parts am I wrong about and what could be looked at in order to avoid problems you might see. Consider this more as brainstorming or a thought experiment.

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hey...I will.read later but gettimg ready for work....let.me.tag you in the comment I just left for acid and maybe it answers your initial questions.

I will be back in about 10 hours to try to catch up on comments and then I'll.try to reply more fully to you!!!
🙌😀

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Hi!!! super long day. and another one on the horizon. but the most amazing, difficult, purpose-driven opportunity that I've had in about 4 years. (had another amazing one that ended then!) Special needs people are incredible.
this little guy I have... I hope the person who did this to him will rot - for a very long time.

my mind is depleted hehehe but I did go up and read your message and Acid's and I love that you both were so committed to trying to find ways to strengthen the idea. But, I'm really thinking that someone else would probably be much better to make an initiative like this happen. Because you both are saying things that just aren't making the connection in my head. The way that I think is just different, not better, not worse - different. And if I had was sitting in front of you both at a table - and trying to really make this work (and if i had the time LOL) I would sit there and brainstorm and learn, and adjust and rally and train and do it all. But I was hoping to help to implement this with 3 people that I trusted, train them on the concept and equip them - and then support them from the background as needed.

I completely hear what you both are saying - not enough trust, worry of scam, people not able to afford the 1HP/1%, and all the other things you listed - Instead of me revamping the entire thing, I think it probably just makes more sense for someone who is more in tune with the needs of Hive (as far as DHF, rewards, etc) to set forth the proposal. (And I think some people already have some pretty serious initiatives in mind)

But I'm happy to have at least hopefully added something to the mix. If at the very least - gotten people talking.

As I said to acid - thanks for your willingness to continue to be part of the conversation and add a lot of depth and thought to this... I hope that the "powers that be" have been scanning the comment sections and adding in your thoughts to their plans! hehehe

Have a good night (or day!! lol) heading to bed for another full day with one of the sweetest angels on the planet!!! :)

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(Edited)

My brother is special, as they say. Good guy.

And I'm not worried about your project being a scam. Concerned this particular approach could open the door to competitors hijacking the trust something like this service builds within the community, and using that trust to take advantage of others by offering something similar then burning people, as they do.

There are a lot of moving parts on Hive.

You say 1 HP, but with a total of 7 accounts delegating stake there's already 1166 HP in the account. And that vote is only worth two cents, while one post shelling out 1% could bring in 10 cents, even a dollar. 1% doesn't sound like much but it adds up really fast.

So if I was in that room you speak of I would have suggested monthly payouts or something along those lines to give back the surplus rather than making it appear as if you're building a whale off the backs of the people and their work which might not be intention but that doesn't matter. One thing you don't want to do here is set yourself up to be on the receiving end of a community uproar two years down the line. You've seen those posts. Stacking a pile of money with the promise of payout means, eventually, people demand you shut it down because they want their money.

But I guess it doesn't matter now...

And if people really were scanning comments looking for ideas that actually solve issues, I'd go straight to the root of the problem and suggest a simple proposal system like what we already have that allows community members to report menaces abusing their downvotes. An appeals system. Community could have a look at the case, vote, and if it's decided someone is being a menace with abusive downvotes, the community's vote of approval would trigger the muting of that account's downvote function temporarily. What does one gain by being a menace with their downvote if the community can simply switch it off. Problem solved. And of course I left out all the finer details since I'm just talking to the clouds.

Anyway. LOL I could just keep going and going and going but I think I'll stop there.

I don't think you should give up entirely but that's not my call either.

Have a nice day.

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Will there be a place to see which posts are currently in need of help???

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Hi! Happy almost Monday to you!

Question: would it not be better if you see a problem and know the answer, you just offered the answer instead of making someone guess what you are thinking?

Just my 2 cents.

I can see where you are coming from. I think it is a concern. but this post was all about the community helping each other and asking for feedback and ideas or both.

HUGS!

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No. When there's money and community support involved, I expect those behind the project to be able to have all the bases covered on their own. This isn't my project. If it's not up to my personal standards, I don't support it, but that doesn't stop others from supporting it. If I present a problem but it doesn't click as to how it could be a problem or is simply written off as a nonissue, I'd sooner back away from the discussion instead of arguing and trying to get my way since this is not my project and I don't want to create problems. Nobody here has to agree with me or see things my way.

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I LOVE your answer!!!!!!!

Honest! It's a REALLY GREAT answer :D

Thank You for that!!!

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Great initiative ❤️🔥💪🍀, i am not good at words like you. You are doing great , whatever the results will be i am totally in 😉🙏🎉❤️

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words are good. 😂

thanks @bhattg! as soon as i get feedback on the post - for anything that needs to be adjusted - I'll make the proposal properly and we'll see if it passes or not!

If not - anyone else is free to try again using any or all of our ideas here and implementing them into a new proposal!

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😅👌, so fast and full of energy ❤️. Let's hope for the best 🤞.

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(Edited)

It would be a miracle if the proposal passes.

Downvotes are equally as important as upvotes and are far more important in practice to be used because currently, they are drastically UNDERUSED. We need to normalize downvoting, as we would give a "thumbs down" on any content on web 2.

https://peakd.com/pob/@theycallmedan/proof-of-brain-theory-and-further-optimization

Read some solutions of dan and smooth with counter talks. It will really help you understand a new side of picture.

If you wanna dive more, learn about L2 burn to get L1 votes. I am not even talking about club100, hawk, beetoons,or tdtv.......

(Will this provides insurance if all the votes they got were inorganic cause of delegate, hold and burn methods? It can reach upto shocking number of 30$+

Also, some were allowed with 1 ratio 1 (which I was also against) but they implemented cheap tricks to take L2 burns to get L1 votes to 1 ratio 3 by adding tribe votes like #tribes bee token votes. Now these offers are highly exploitable with bot farms. Even a 0.001 hive difference of profit can trigger it and we are talking about 1 ratio 3.)

Also, there was a known project freezepeach recently got closed. I liked their approach and aims although not many delegated to them.

In short, there are many sides of stories. One's wrong can be right for someone. While I respect your thoughts, I want to add what you saw or observed is just a tip of the iceberg.

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I have no problem with downvotes that are used with consideration and I think many people are fine with them. I think the problem that we are talking about is downvotes that are simply used to counter upvotes without manually overseeing if the posts actually deserve it.

I think people are losing sight of the actual problem.

This has nothing to do with normalizing downvotes. This has to do with the collateral damage caused by whale wars that do not involve anyone but the two whales.

That is what this proposal is seeking to do. Assist people who have been adversely affected by a whale war, that has absolutely nothing to do with the quality or content of their post.

I hope that makes it more clear 😊

(and if this proposal doesn't pass, that's perfectly fine as I stated in the post. My hope is that it pulls people out of the talking mode...and into the problem solving mode. then maybe we all win! )

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(Edited)

downvotes that are used with consideration

Who makes the call? The people who gets pressure cause they will loose their funding if they don't listen to lords aka admins. Xeldal and marky both r right in their own CONSIDERATION.

without manually overseeing

If both parties claim they manually view it (there is no current way to find out nor asking for this information makes sense). Even in this case of xeldal and marky it's too hard to draw a line, atleast for me based on my knowledge gathered from dark habit holes. The people who will be incharge will end up not doing favours but politically pressured cause of capitalist POV, resulting in favours by any means possible.

Unless it's a more decentralized and solid concept, that's a no from my side.

We r talking about decentralization here but always end up with centralized ideas like HW while mostly don't even know about hivedownvoterewards, curangel, freezepeach, watchingthewatchers, hiveminds.

Your thoughts are beautiful but......

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I guess I could ask you who makes the call now?

who made the call to downvote all those posts that were decent posts, right?

I didn't say they were wrong....i asked Marky if he has actually read Deraaa's post to see if it was worthy of xeldal's upvote.
He said "I was merely countering his upvote"

Does that seem like consideration went into evaluating the post? or just an automatic counter?

I'm not sure how to keep the focus on the fact that this was a whale war, and the downvote has nothing to do with the quality of her post.

it was a counter to an upvote... regardless of the quality of the post.

That is the collateral damage that is happening to many people because two whales are arguing.

This is not an issue of someone using a downvote. It's a matter of two people warring and damaging other accounts that are uninvolved.

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Good luck 🤞

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I have peace about whatever is decided, hehehe so no luck is needed for me.

I am actually hopeful that whales see the bigger solution is actually much easier than this whole approach.

STOP COLLATERAL DAMAGE FROM WHALE WARS

The only people that can truly and EASILY end that are the whales themselves.

So we await that....I think THAT is where "luck" is needed 😉

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STOP COLLATERAL DAMAGE FROM WHALE WARS

A whale like marky was also a victim for last one year. Not many were interested cause it wasn't ALOT of peoples rewards. His fault was loving hive and protecting the reward pool.

I really wish you all the best but a centralize solution is not what Hive needs and especially with beneficiary and delegations plus funding involved in my pov. I wish all hivers will think together but not starting from xeldal counter votes but from beetoons days slowly coming towards tdtv and then currently going hawk.

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Everyone has been a victim of bad behavior.

It never excuses us to react poorly ourselves.

I wish that people would realize that we are all accountable for our actions and saying that we have been abused is never a good reason to abuse others.

I appreciate your opinion, and I also appreciate that you would prefer to pass on this. I'm perfectly fine with that 😊

I do hope that others will not make excuses for poor behavior but offer better solutions that appeal to the community so that we stop having collateral damage from wars that have nothing to do with our content.

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(Edited)

Do you know how decentralized antiabuse work? Someone wants a dv and fear to do themselves, just drop a text in channel and some will dv it. No centralize authority or judgement.

Similarly, create a discord a bit similar to freezepeach+hivedr combo and ask people to apply by dropping victim post link. Then decentralized upvoters can counter it. No need for Delegations, beneficiaries or funding. Just need a place in discord to connect victims and volunteer upvoters. And a more decentralized solution is implemented. Maybe ultize some bots and tech.

U can make it more decentralized if you want. Also, you can encourage them by giving badges based on $ value countered. Just make sure people use it to upvote the damage value. Also, a suggestion is ignore any post if they used any inorganic vote method (i know you will disagree here). That's completely fine. Make your own rules.

Everyone has been a victim of bad behavior.
It never excuses us to react poorly ourselves.

Everyone deserves equal support either a whale or a fish. Whales are even more important as they play a big role. Does anyone try to help markymark curate freely again by distributing the hits on his counter votes or anyone talked about supporting his posts to counter the effects? I hope it's solved but do people also care about marky or just one side of the picture?

One complain, you upvoted comments who supports similar thoughts as you (first comment not thread or first comment not comment under comment) while you exactly know indexing works on hive with upvotes. What if some would like to call it soft censorship or talking about voice lower in queue? If someone claim it, does this mean you only wanna see people who think like you in comment section for people who read first two comments? No hard feelings. Just logic.

1,3 had different thoughts so they are down in comment section. While all others have similar thoughts so here have a vote not just as appreciation but also making you come on top if someone wanna go to comment section. $ value is dust but indexing of comments matters (based on all comments so far).

IMG_20230515_092501.jpg

IMG_20230515_092358.jpg

IMG_20230515_092441.jpg

IMG_20230515_092414.jpg

IMG_20230515_092428.jpg

I hope it's just a slippery slop and was a non intented thing (maybe u never thought about this pov) and you will try to rank different opinions in comment section to value all types of opinions.

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Yes, you can feel free to add your upvote to the comments to index them in the order you like. It's your upvote to use as you wish, so feel free.

You mentioned that freezepeach had a similar idea but closed it. Did you know why he closed it? Maybe there is some insight there in why it didn't work for him? or work for the community?

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(Edited)

I don't do self upvotes 99% of the times. So ofcourse I will not upvote myself. Since I engaged with an author, I assume it's their decision or readers choice to index it if they found it engaging. If they only want one type of noise on the post then I will take my trash somewhere else from next time.

You can join in discord to ask rondon aka onlyclowns.world

https://discord.gg/sb6dTJn6

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I wasnt saying to upvote yourself...I was saying if you would like to index the comments differently than I have...feel free to upvote other comments as you see fit lol

Many people don't leave the comment section only for the author to express their value for comments.

there are 5 other comments there that you can appreciate in the order you like. Do so as you like. 🙂

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It would be a miracle if the proposal passes.

Starting any conversation with a negative comment is rude.

This post is about helping tiny minnows when they get a 2.57-cent downvote. And because of that downvote on a wonderfully written post, the lady that wrote the post will now be getting 1.57 cents per the posts payout in 7 days -the curation rewards.

And when she misses that 1.00 USD, she will not be able to eat FOOD or pay RENT and might end up homeless.

You can take all your numbers and facts and figures and shuffle them around and write your heart out about how downvotes are needed on the blockchain. To which I agree, by the way, and have been hit by HUGE downvotes and small ones, but this post is about the LITTLE GUY.

The ones that come and become great writers. The ones that bring others that become great writers. The ones that, occasionally, need a little kindness and understanding from fellow humans and not numbers thrown in their faces. Because you know what? No one can eat numbers. Numbers written in a comment do not feed or pay go to college. With the money they earn on Hive they take that 2.00 USD a post and make a better life for themselves.

I do not think that is asking too much.

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(Edited)

Crowdfundedwhale or cfw was a project a bit similar to this but had different aims. It didn't got passed which makes me believe this one will not too. While I also gave an alternative solution:

Similarly, create a discord a bit similar to freezepeach+hivedr combo and ask people to apply by dropping victim post link. Then decentralized upvoters can counter it. No need for Delegations, beneficiaries or funding. Just need a place in discord to connect victims and volunteer upvoters. And a more decentralized solution is implemented. Maybe ultize some bots and tech.

U can make it more decentralized if you want. Also, you can encourage them by giving badges based on $ value countered. Just make sure people use it to upvote the damage value. Also, a suggestion is ignore any post if they used any inorganic vote method (i know you will disagree here). That's completely fine. Make your own rules.

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@dlmmqb...


I have taken several days, to read, and re-read, and try to digest all of the comments left on this post. As you read I am sure... I was named as one of those responsible for the mindset behind the creation of this initiative. I was not, however, the person to write this post... that was @dreemsteem. But in regards to your comments... this stood out to me, time and time again...


It would be a miracle if the proposal passes.

It will really help you understand a new side of picture.

Do you know how decentralized antiabuse work?

One complain, you upvoted comments who supports similar thoughts as you (first comment not thread or first comment not comment under comment) while you exactly know indexing works on hive with upvotes.


Now... you do realize the following... yes?

image.png

OperaGX snapshot from Source


That's the creation date of dreemsteems account. So I am pretty sure she is quite aware of how the blockchain works. You know who I am, and what I stand for on our blockchain... And to be honest, respectfully, your comments were more confrontational than supportive. I can remember when you first joined the blockchain and the lengths we went to help you get your start. We went above and beyond for you... just like we are trying to do for all those affected by the negative energies that sometimes fall on those who do not deserve such treatment. I thought, for sure, you would understand... maybe more than most. Sadly... I don't think you understand just what this was all about.

I appreciate the time you took to reply, as well as the opinions you gave... but at the end of the day, it was more detrimental, than helpful. Just my opinion, and my take on the energy that you invoked. It was this very energy that has now put this helpful, and much-needed initiative... on a backburner... Hopefully, we will be able to find some resolution to this matter... this is what matters... community. I was not going to reply... but I could not let my thoughts go unwritten. Have a good rest of your day...

Wes...

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(Edited)

I can remember when you first joined the blockchain and the lengths we went to help you get your start.

Dreemport, snook, you and others all were helpful to me and I love you all for that.

We went above and beyond for you

100% agree here.

Sadly... I don't think you understand just what this was all about.

Maybe you are right. We need a solution for sure. But is this the solution we need? It can go easily south ways considering alot of factors it depends on. Test the alternatives where volunteers have bots to track whale war damages and trusted volunteers drop post and other volunteers can reverse the damages. I am not in favour of this as a solution nor others have to agree with me.

I was not going to reply... but I could not let my thoughts go unwritten.

Thank you for writing. I appreciate it.

You can ask people in city, I was using my ecency boost and other votes i can gather whenever I saw a whale war victim or someone send me. I was worried cause of this. But recently after one rugpull and other events, I am being very careful about who gets my support. For example utopias and other issues (+luna crash) caused me to not invest in investment tokens currently on HE with 35% returns and I switched to hbd savings of 20%.

I do believe in solutions but what the solution stands on matters the most to me currently. Currently it's not something that I see with positive light. Let's get our heads together to build more alternative solutions and pick the best one and especially a decentralized one.

On this Friday to Sunday (fix time in advance), I am able to attend a meeting where I will be sharing my feedback + anyone u wanna onboard on this matter + you ofcourse. If you want, I am ready to think together for something that makes sense to me (if it matters) + others.

I appologize to anyone if they found my words in appropriate.

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Wasn't able to comment earlier, but, I'm not sure if a proposal is necessary or the right approach. In general I've been a bit skeptical of the current ones getting funded as well, I think in many if not most cases they're ignoring transparency and just looking to get as much funding for personal gain as possible. I'm going to be a lot more stricter in the near future and the newer ones I approved to see how they report and document what they're doing with the funding if they wanna keep my vote.

In this regard, if the downvotes stopped for instance, we'd have to rally people to unvote if it got funding. At the same time, I'm also not sure why 35$ daily was the number it landed on, it shouldn't require that much work and effort to have a place where people can report their content being a target of this and curators checking that that's the case and then compiling some of those posts into a CCC or something to send them post rewards through while the curators and compiler gets a cut from the post rewards instead.

So my thoughts would be that some smaller rewards go this way to those behind the project rather than turning it into a big thing with proposals and stuff, after all this is about helping people, not profiting off of it, which even with the best intentions could lead down to more manipulation over time.

I feel like for smaller things like these, personally, it's okay to use the post reward pool, at the same time it makes each day unique and people can curate them accordingly. I.e. if there were only 3 posts that suffered these downvotes that day then u vote it a bit less and give the curators/people behind the project less rewards. I can tell you that close to no proposals have returned any funds to the DHF so far so that maybe explains my thinking here as well. A lot of the delegate 1 hp here and give 1% beneficiary here seems a bit unnecessary as well.

Anyway, just some initial thoughts of this idea.

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Thanks so much for your input! I honestly thought $10 a day per person was cheap! lol

but I am American, so my perspective is different. I know what we get paid for an hour's work is a lot different than around the world. I don't even see that as profit but simply paying people for the time to run a project for the benefit of the community. When I talked about this idea... literally so many people were like...ummmm too much work lol I don't have the time for it. 🤣

And a 1 HP delegation, again, I would have thought this was something that is so minimal for everyone!! But you're the second person to ask why it's so high. I'm so used to seeing much higher delegations all around the platform. I don't think I've ever seen one as low as 1HP. and it's a delegation.. lol people can literally remove it and get it right back if they decide it doesn't align with their objective anymore.

But I must just have a clear picture of what's common on Hive anymore. oh well! lol

Im excited to see what ideas spin off this conversation to see what help will come to the community for these issues. Maybe Trost has something a lot more feasible!! So let's be on the lookout for his plan! 😊

Thanks again for all your support for deraaa.. and for your responses on the last post snd this one! I know she was only one person that we got to help but I guess until this situation gets solved, it's just the reality of Hive right now.

well, we do eventually get a break between one whale war and the next. 🤷

keep our heads up and find the joy!!

have a great night acid..(or day hehe)

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No the delegations aren't high, I just think that whole idea is a bit pointless. Unless you fear that the "compilation posts" of those targeted will also get downvoted? In that case I could understand going the proposal route + delegations and beneficiaries. Also it's not about 35$ being high, it's about getting something for your time and effort for helping out, whether that's 10$ or $100 is all up in the air in these markets and if you value the main currency of the ecosystem. I just don't want it to be seen as "work" and we do something similar in ocd where curators and post editors get a little bit of the rewards we give out for the time and effort to find the posts to curate.

It's not a big issue and I'm happy something is done about it or attempted, guess I was just hoping it'd be more of a genuine gesture to help out (not saying this isn't), but the current "proposed" idea doesn't feel right to me somehow.

Either way, just some thoughts at first read, will try checking what other people say over time.

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(Edited)

sorry..it was midnight for me... hahaha I'm up now!

yep that was exactly the point of the DHF!

I didn't want to have the ability to upvote people to then have those rewards targeted again with more downvotes. I stated in the proposal that's why we would give the liquid rewards back to people directly into their wallets to prevent this from happening. I'm just not a big fan of games and the whole idea of doing the work to then have it be negated again is just too much round and round.

Eliminate that by getting people their upvote value back, as quickly as possible.

Only way to do that is with liquid rewards.

I am no whale...lol I do not have that kind of money hahaha

That is why I said DHF because it seems to me that the fund is set aside for situations exactly like this. Where you have people from the community being hit, and absolutely no way to rectify the situation except to wait for people to decide to do the right thing.

I mean....that's great if it happens!

But in the meantime, what's the solution? There isnt one. So this was just one attempt to help the community with what was available. But I'm sure other ideas will come too!

I have to be honest... I keep hearing that it shouldn't be a for profit thing, and I absolutely am failing to see where any profit is being delivered.

The three people who are getting daily HBD are going to be doing a lot of work on this. It is not automated. It is manual. I know the kind of work involved and I certainly don't want to do it!!! lolol. why? because it's SO much work to manually do these things!!! Any person who does curation consistently KNOWS how much work it is to read posts, run through plagiarism checker, do background checks on people, dog deeper to see if scams are involved, check wallets to see if connections, do the calculations on how much money is available to restore them...and then try to actually GIVE that out....based on what we have..and then adjust it because we most likely will not have the rewards to fulfill each request!

I think anyone who doesn't see all.the work involved simply isn't aware of it all. And that is perfectly fine, but I cannot in good conscience ask someone to sign up for at least a year commitment to something like this and then say....well, maybe you don't get compensated for your time because now WE are victims of the whale wars and we are dependent on the "good graces of upvotes from others" that are now being downvoted by attacks.

Nope.

the DHF is set up FOR the community in times like this to HELP the community.

and I was going to actually have it be $10 hbd for only ONE person to do the admin...As soon as I saw all the work,.I thought...that is so unreasonable for one person...its a full time job for $10 a day??? lolol

I mean again..I'm an American so maybe $10 a day is amazing for some countries but I cannot in good conscience offer that to someone for all that work in my world.

so that is exactly where the $10 (times 3) a day came from....for three people to work as a team to make this smooth and consistent and MANUAL and BEYOND THE TOUCH of ridiculous wars affecting their hard work FOR the community lololol.

for profit? oh my goodness...hehehe...like I said, if people look at compensating others for their work as profit, well there is nothing I can do about that.

I would have to ask every single person on a curation team...do you get any compensation for your work?

it is absolutely work!!! lolol it's so much work!!! hahahaha and I believe people should be honored for their work.

I see people who are major curators for various projects getting RIDICULOUS votes on their posts and I never ever complain. Know why? Because I say...good for them!!!! I know the amount of work that they do!!! and good that everyone else SEES their value to Hive and what they do and LEAVES THEIR POST REWARDS ALONE!! LOL

I never see them getting downvoted even though their posts are super high.... because there is some agreement behind the scenes that they are worth it...so leave them be.

and I think this is GREAT. Because when someone works hard to make Hive shine....we all win. and that should be honored.

My point is....it's clear that this doesn't extend to everyone, and I have absolutely not one doubt in my mind that THESE posts would become targets of whale.wars.

So we cannot be dependent on whale upvotes... because the whale downvotes will.be coming too.

we need to be supported by many little votes of the community that we are helping.

and if cool whales want to support too? they can support by delegation.

I'm far from.a whale!!!! but I put my own 1000 HP behind it because I believe in it.

But I cannot guarantee that the work of the admins would be compensated. I know this...if I had the $35 a day??? I would just do it myself. Cuz I am not the kind of person that deals with nonsense. I don't like red tape and I don't like talking for months and months to do nothing.

but I don't have it.

so I proposed we go to the DHF.

if whales say no? ok. whales have the say and they have the power. community support is great and indicates the pulse of Hive, but you and I know community support does not pass proposals. A group of powerful whales do.

As far as the rewards... there is no profit there either.

This is money going back to the people who had upvotes on decent posts that were taken away because they were caught in a whale war.

and then IF there are any liquid rewards left over, at the beginning of each month it is powered up.

which goes BACK to the community in upvotes for the people who were targeted.

It's just a simple..."stop the nonsense" project. that focuses on stopping the nonsense.

I make 0 in this scenario.
Admin are compensated for their time in this scenario.
people affected get as much help as we can give and if it's not enough? I'm sorry but that's all we have.

People who are delegating make 0 in this scenario.

There is no profit to be had. It all goes back to the community.

I can understand that when you're used to dealing with scammers all day, you feel like everything can be a scam and you have to be prepared and fighting against it.

but sometimes...it's not a scam.

it's decent people doing the right thing because it's not getting done.

I am not saying "just trust me" ...cuz that's what a scammer would say too hahahah

I'm saying...I understand that you have reservations. I fully understand that you see risk and you don't know me from Adam and your job is to protect Hive as well. I can appreciate that. and I DO appreciate that.

I'm just saying, we WERE the decent people trying to get the job done..lol

and for the record....I can guarantee you....I would have been your FIRST project to give back every cent of DHF fund if we weren't needed again. I cannot stand thieves and I cannot stand deceit and I cannot stand sleazy underhanded deals.

I stand by my reputation and you would have been proud to have worked with me 😊

But, I am also 100% satisfied to have done my part...tried to make a solution, and pass the baton to someone else. There is no bad feelings, and if it doesn't feel right to you, I fully respect that and accept that it probably will also not feel right to other whales.

I'm probably not seeing what you see because I know my own heart, my own integrity, my own dedication, and my own commitment to getting shit done the right way... and you don't know me! lol so that is completely fair.

But I also know when to pass the baton and wish the next person well.

And I'm fully aware that talks are going on with major players...and I hope their vision is a bit more attractive than this one so that it can pass to get the community the help they need so Hive can more easily thrive. (I hope they don't have profits for people...hahaha or that will be the first eyebrow raised!! lol)

If not...as I said.. it's doomed without some solution. So I, for one, will wait to see what happens and cheer on the next attempt!!! heheheh

all good from here, Acid!!! nothing but love 😍

(here is the comment @nonameslefttouse ... and I edited my ridiculous typos that I found too so it should read easier now hahaha... I will respond better to your own comment when I get back home this evening! but maybe this answers some?? i dont know! see you later!!)

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(Edited)

I also fixed up some typos and cleaned up my recent comment since at the time of writing I was merely scrambling to jot down notes.

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Okay so, just to keep things clear, I'm not accusing anyone involved here of anything, I'm just personally not a big fan of proposals, it's also a reason I haven't started any myself even though many have suggested for things like @poshtoken for instance which has over 3000 registered users by now and I believe has done wonders not just to get traffic onto our front-ends but build a lively hive-community over on twitter spreading the word and amplifying our message. I've just always kept it as a "last scenario" kind of deal, if everything else fails, then I'll give it a try. I've made due with delegations and post rewards instead, the latter something that does cause concern in some stakeholders but we've been vigilant to be transparent and only use all funds towards the project, without myself even paying me for the work that's gone into it as I know that would've been something that would've raised flags (even though it still does from time to time).

My point is just that I don't see this project as something that'll get funded, and I don't mean to be dismissing about the idea or effort that'll go into it. It's more about the fact that I think post rewards are way too high these days, looking at trending there's an insane amount of posts daily that get really high rewards while some of the people there are frequent earners, you could even count myself as one of them even though I try not to farm daily posts and autovotes I do post from time to time to objectively reward myself for other things I do around the ecosystem. Similarly there are many who may not do as much or close to anything beside post and maybe respond to comments on their posts getting rewards that not only are unfathomable to other content creators on other platforms, but with the potential of hive's price could 10x+ easily in the near future. Thus I've always considered the post reward pool to be flexible, i.e. you can use some of it for other activities, such as rewarding curators for going the extra mile to look for underrewarded/overlooked authors/posts, the lovesniper initiative for curating and welcoming the first posts of new users and giving them a guiding hand and future curation if they seem genuine, the onboarding team for bringing in new users and teaching them the ropes, and everyone making sure to generate compilation posts for our readers and stakeholders to give the users some extra attention for retention. The value that's being generated by a majority of posts with a lot of rewards is not high imo, even with promotional attempts to drive in traffic to them from the outside. That's why I think we can be more flexible with that to reward other activities that do bring value to the platform, such as your admins/curators for instance and the posts that do get countered by these downvote games.

It's of course just a bandaid fix cause the posts will still look like shit due to these wars, but that could easily be made prettier if this project instead of sending them beneficiaries would liquidate the rewards earned from compilation posts and instead send them out as tips on peakd. Posts showing close to $0 rewards due to downvotes would instead show a nice little gift box icon of a received tip from your project. At the same time there could be manipulation attempts so I understand the need for curators but I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue or timeconsumption to understand who the genuine authors and content are being targeted by this compared to those not bringing any value.

Either way, if the proposal doesn't work out, feel free to reach out to me to give this idea a try. Simple compilation posts depending on how often posts and users are affected by this highlighting the curated posts and taking a cut for the curation work within the rewards of those posts would remove a lot of unnecessary complications I read earlier. I highly doubt these would also become the target of downvoters because that would make them even bigger assholes than they already seem to be for tripling down on their ways at this point when others are trying to find solutions to problems they've created. The thing I like the most about these compilation posts is that they themselves can be curated too; was there only 3 posts affected today that were curated? Okay here's a x% vote. Was it a busy downvote war day today and 20 posts were affected and curated? Okay here's a x% vote. Is the curator taking too much of a cut for the amount of work being put into curating 6 posts and highlighting accepting only 4 of them? Let them know that you're not going to continue curating these posts if that continues. Another big win for compilation posts is that you can upvote them in the first 24h thus not affecting your curation returns negatively and at the same time you won't need to step in and curate the downvoted posts to give higher returns to the affected posts that are in conflict which may drive the initial whales to give in on their wars and just upvote posts they can't get countered this badly by, thus hopefully removing the need for this project completely again.

This flexibility is something that makes Hive amazing and I don't think diving into the DHF inflation is better than keeping it withing the post reward inflation since that's where the issue is happening in the first place.

Don't worry about typos, it might be one of the only things settings us apart from AI in the near future.

I also understand it might be difficult to get everything I'm saying as I'm not great at explaining my vision but let's see later if you decide to give this route a try instead.

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hey!!! home from work... I busted up laughing about the typo AI comment hahaha

and no - you can actually tell the AI to add in some typos LOL so - sorry! ;)

I just started a new job, and I think I'll probably have to bow out. I was reading your comment and it's not that you're not great at explaining your vision! it's that I'm going to have to try to understand it enough to then train people how it works and then assure them, that nothing is going to upset the apple cart, and they will be guaranteed that they will be compensated for their time and and and.. hehehe

I really thought that it was a good idea - but after the first few comments came in saying "there is no way this is gonna get funded.." I just kinda nodded, smiled, and quietly took my leave. I wish that I could help, but I almost think it would be better that someone who was more capable of aligning their solution with the whales - should take up the gauntlet. Because I'm clearly just on the wrong tracks and if that's the case, I happily just pass the opportunity to someone who is more gifted in that arena/ skilled in the language of whales. LOL

The reason why - is I still don't see the problem with how it was set up, so I'll continue to still make the same problems with anything further that I suggest or try to implement. I guess I'm thinking - if you have this already kinda thought out - why not just run with it?? I mean - I'm sure you already have an enormous amount of pull with the whale collective hahaha - maybe just run with your idea if it's the better alternative - you know?

but yeah, I don't think I'll even propose it. It took me a while to write the first post, took me all day to write the second post (happy mother's day to me LOL) and it's not at all near the place it needs to be to be passed. So, I don't need to press these ideas anymore - I know when its time to step aside for the better ideas! hehe (and I'm pretty sure Trost said there are a bunch of people who have been talking about ways to fix this. And I have a feeling that they are much capable of constructing a solution that is acceptable on all fronts.

My brain is absolutely fried. Worked with an amazing special needs child all day long - and he's just absolutely brilliant despite the tragedies of his very young existence. I can't thank you enough for your willingness to dive into this with the passion that you have.

Sorry my attempt fell short, but I'm positive that better things will be suggested.

Goodnight to you - sweetest dreems :)

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as you state to use hivewatchers as a weight, I stopped reading the post at that mention and will not support the account. Otherwise it's a good idea and I would. But Hivewatcher and their false positives and arbitrary actions and arrogant attitude against AI artists a few weeks ago forever made them go on my mental blacklist.

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oh I wish you would have continued to read further then... because I very clearly stated that they would be used but not the final say.

I happen to have an amazing Hiver friend who is one of the best content creators I've seen on Hive in a long time who was blacklisted by HW... lol and I support this person fully because HW made a mistake in this case. As I said...they are human and do make mistakes! lol

HW would be used but not the final say

Because HW has immense resources and I do not...it would be silly of me to NOT use the work that they do to help me further our cause.

But if you cannot support a community project that also uses some of the info from HW to make our job easier...hehehe I understand and would never want anyone to go against what they feel is best.

But in order to duplicate that amount of account checking, I would have to increase my DHF proposal significantly

And I'm already being told that $10 a day is way too much for our admins... lol

So, yes.. we have to use what is at our disposal to make the system work as best as we can with the funds we can get.

I'm sorry that negated your approval for what we are trying to do. I'm certain that some other better idea will come along that will be more attractive 🙂

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That convinved me now 😎
I think, sometimes your project would be needed to protect accounts against HW victims.

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hahaha well I'm sorry that I convinced you a little too late! LOL

because according to some very smart people on the chain - this proposal is highly unlikely to pass. and so I'm stepping aside and welcoming others to join in with their vision!

Let's hope that the solution is on the horizon!!!

Thanks for your very kind engagement! I appreciate it!

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p.s. I am also an AI artist lol

and I also don't agree with the blanket resistance to using AI art for our purposes... AI art is an amazing new tool that should be used responsibly, as everybody else in life. hehe

have a beautiful day 🏵️

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This could definitely take off big time :) ...

May I suggest that those who are getting consistent downvotes on every post (as opposed to randomly having a whale vote negated) have the ability to select a friend or an alternate account to receive their upvotes?

Reblogged ♥️

This post has been manually curated by the VYB curation project

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Hi you! Thanks for your encouragement! but I don't think that my ideas are the kind of ideas that are supported by the DHF - for all the various reasons that have been stated in the comment section by people who know Hive's inner workings better than me LOL

so i'm stepping aside for someone more qualified to step up! hehehe

I miss you so much. i know we both have been busy - and my life just got busier - and i'd love to come and tell you in DM - but i'm absolutely exhausted. LOL

hopefully on wednesday evening, i can catch up!!! love to you, my brotha!

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Wednesday sounds good ♥️

so i'm stepping aside for someone more qualified to step up! hehehe

I can't help but wonder if this might have actually been too much for your schedule anyway???

!PIZZA !ALIVE
!LUV

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@dreemsteem...


Hi you! Thanks for your encouragement! but I don't think that my ideas are the kind of ideas that are supported by the DHF - for all the various reasons that have been stated in the comment section by people who know Hive's inner workings better than me LOL


image.png
OperaGX snapshot from your account page


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justSayingBanner_.png

#justsaying

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@dreemsteem... & all...


Good morning! It was 2 A.M. when I first read this post... Now almost 11:00 A.M. I am going to try and inter-communicate-along (is that a word?) here...


The ihealyou account was a wonderful project that helped those being downvoted using the SBI initiative. The account that was downvoting had some M's... a K's and some numbers (I don't want to start up something here... this s a space for positive energy). After a time, that account stopped its downvoting, and the need for the ihealyou was no longer needed... (fingers remain crossed).


So... many know me (maybe?) and know my mindset; create thoughtfulness, positive energy, and yes... love... on our blockchain. Notice I said "our" blockchain? Because it is. As I have read through all of the comments thus far... this was one that kept coming back to my brain wiggles... it was from @dreemsteem:


That is what this proposal is seeking to do. Assist people who have been adversely affected by a whale war, that has absolutely nothing to do with the quality or content of their post.


Now, I have admitted the following... time and time again; numbers, figures, and tech jargon are not my thing. I am a "people person". I was raised with the mindset of... respect, manners, and compassion... these were the things that were important in life. I don't talk, or dream binary lol. To me, it's easy to see... "It's not the situation, it's how you handle it". Which is why we are here. I am not going to keep typing about things that are not relevant... not saying anyone has! Just trying to keep this as simple as possible. Because it really is. People are getting treated in a negative manner, that don't need to be. We are trying to come together as a community to do something about it. Will I be the one leading the project? No lol... Multiple Sclerosis decides what each day has in store for me... then my personal life... then my community... then all my Discord Servers. But... (there's always a but) I look forward to seeing some more positive, motivational, and helpful comments!

So I guess I should say...


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hehehe based on all the feedback on this post - I will not be the one to lead the charge either - and that's ok!!! hahaha

I'm happy with the project that comes to fix the solution. It doesn't have to be my idea - never had to be LOL

I am just one to start doing SOMETHING instead of talk talk talk. but hey -maybe my starting something will just ignite the fire under someone else who HAS been waiting to do something great - and just needed someone else to give them a nudge.

I hope i nudged, at least hahaha

love you Wes!!!

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@dreemsteem...


Just coming back to see if there were any new positive comments or suggestions left (besides yours here of course!). I guess I didn't word my comment the way I was trying to... What I should have said, was even though it would be an honor to lead such a outstanding initiative, such as this. I'd simply not have the time. I'll be quite honest... the caliber of comments thus far, kind of left me feeling...


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Not one in particular... everyone did what you/we asked. While most were extremely positive, helpful, and encouraging... well; you know that feeling when you order a banana split, and get a plate of sardines brought out? Yeah... you know what I mean 😏. I was hoping for more hot fudge, and less fish bone lol...

Retreat and regroup? Nah... no Retreat... can't regroup what's already been a group to begin with. Let's see what settles... I am unable to lead dear. But by God I'd stand by you through it all... As I said...


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Love you too, soul sister...

LUV

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Read and then read comments below. I'm not up to times with the whole DhF thing but it was a pretty good idea to me. I see that others have different opinions. But what you've done, Dreemie, is not small. This is great how you were able to actually get people to communicate about these things. It's really hard getting anyone to mention upvotes talk more of downvotes. There's this fear that always lingers around especially for someone like me who's actually dependant on those votes. So, we just slide and don't talk about it. Hoping it'll end.

But what does this mean? That @oopseedaisee will not be functional?

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@deraaa...


Good morning... and hello there, dear soul. I can not speak for @dreemsteem but I fear that all the uncertainty, and not-so-positive reactions/comments, have basically put a hold on this initiative. Sometimes, the simplest things don't always seem so... simple. In a world of numbers, rules, and division. Things often have to be re-molded, before they come about...

I would say this... you have many people that see you, for you. We know where your heart is... and you continue to create positive energy for us on our blockchain... I am sure dreemee will soon reply, but don't worry... positive energy, breeds positive energy!

!LUV

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