RE: LeoThread 2025-08-14 22:48

What's up everybody? It is early morning hours on Sunday, July 7th here in New York City. I just wrapped up an interview with activist and pro-democracy demonstrator Joshua Wong. Joshua is a truly exceptional individual and under different circumstances I would have used this opportunity to really get to know him and try and understand what drives someone at the age of 14 when he started his activism and got over a hundred thousand people to rally alongside him successfully I might add. What drives someone to do that? It's remarkable and I'd recommend you guys check out some of his videos online speaking at rallies. It's hard not to be inspired by this guy's passion. He's 22 now and he's been in and out of prison the last couple of years and he was recently released a few weeks ago for his involvement in events related to the umbrella movement of 2014 which we covered in one of our most recent episodes with Ho-Fung Hong episode 92 which I would highly recommend you listen to if you (1/18)

want some background on what's been going on in Hong Kong and the recent extradition bill. Anyway we had a limited amount of time for this interview. It was also a remote interview that we did over Skype and as regular listeners know I normally do all my recordings in person as hour-long conversations where we really have a chance to go deep. In this case that wasn't possible so instead I wanted to make the most of the opportunity to speak with someone who is so directly associated with this really powerful movement in Hong Kong and let me just say that besides the fact that Joshua is such an interesting and important contemporary political figure I am also drawn to this story as a westerner in particular because it really doesn't seem to fit the model through which we've been conditioned to see the world. The narrative in the West the last few years is that the world is leading authoritarian Erdogan in Turkey far-right parties gaining traction in Europe, Bolsonaro in Brazil but here (2/18)

in this small coastal city with a population the size of New York you have two million people one in four of the country's citizens think about that coming out in protest asserting their civic rights and pushing back against what they feel is a steady encroachment by Beijing on their very delicate independence from the mainland that they got after the handover from the British in 97. It's remarkable and I'm just lucky that I was able to get Joshua on the podcast and that I'm able to share that interview with all of you here today as a reminder tomorrow's episode will be released as scheduled and that one also deals with geopolitics and foreign affairs so make sure to keep your eyes out for that one as well without further do everyone here is my interview with Joshua Wong Joshua Wong welcome to Hidden Forces Hi nice to meet you it's great having you on the program it is midnight here in New York City and midday in Hong Kong can you tell me first what is the atmosphere like in Hong Kong (3/18)

today two out of seven million Hong Kong citizens took to the street which was 30% of Hong Kong's population they took to the street asked for freedom and democracy especially urge government withdraw the extradition bill and let Hong Kong people to have free election but until this moment Hong Kong government and Beijing still ignore the voice of Hong Kong people and have massive arrests more than 100 activists have been sent to hospital due to rubber bullets and tear gas used by police spirality also more than 70 activists were arrested during the past few weeks so you said two million people now Hong Kong's population is something like 7.5 million right so that's close to one in every four adults are protesting in the city at any point in time yes on 16 of June two millions people talk to the street to join the rally on the same moment and to the same location and we have the march from Victoria Park to the government headquarters and we urge government respect to the voice of (4/18)

people the extradition bill introduced by Hong Kong government if it's passed it might extradite any ordinary Hong Kong citizen and even foreigners live in Hong Kong from Hong Kong to China the place without fair trial and the bill have not withdraw and terminated yet governments to ignore the voice of people so when did chief executive Carrie Lam put this bill forward for the first time when did the protests begin these most recent protests and when did you join you were recently let back out of prison you were in prison for three months right and this was not the first time that you had been in prison it was the first time for me to be jailed by government Carrie Lam the leader of Hong Kong introduced this bill on February and before the legislation process planned to formally launch on June on 9 of June 1 million people took to the street urge government worth drawing the bill and on 16 of June two millions people took to the street urge government respect on the voice of people and (5/18)

on 17 of June it's lucky that I could live prison and join this strike so what is at stake for Hong Kong right now one country two system is the promise made by Beijing to its Hong Kong people for the transfer of sovereignty but one country two system have been eroded to a one country one and a half system already because the leader of Hong Kong is never elected by Hong Kong people is just selected by presidency as kind of puppet of Beijing I would say that when two millions people 25 percent of Hong Kongers joined the rally and governments still do not respect to the voice of people it just let more people be more angry and asking that why Hong Kong people can't have democracy and why the leader are not elected chosen by Hong Kong people is there a sense that peaceful demonstrations are not working that the chief executive Carrie Lam and the government in Hong Kong are not responding to what the demonstrators have asked for so far that's why we recognize how Hong Kong is kind of semi- (6/18)

authoritarian city peaceful demonstration and protests could show the power of people and let the people around the world in the international communities could know how Hong Kong people is ready and keen to ask for democracy but peaceful protests still could not generate enough pressure to government we recognize that two millions people took the street is the achievement and even legacy of Hong Kong and even is the largest demonstration in Hong Kong history but it's not enough that's why during the anniversary of Hong Kong handover the first of July people storm into the legislative council occupy the chambers for a few hours and with this action is largely peaceful because none of the staff of the legislative council or police were physically assaulted by activists they occupy the chambers of legislative council just the world could know that lawmakers in Hong Kong are not democratically elected and the extradition bill might still have possibility being introduced in the (7/18)

legislative council so in some of the pictures circulating from the occupation of the legislative council one of the pictures I saw was of a column spray painted with the words Hong Kong is not China now I asked you before what's at stake for Hong Kong and you said one country two systems there also seems to be a strong sense of national and civic identity of Hong Kongers is that sense of nationalism in Hong Kong growing we recognize ourselves as Hong Kongers and for myself I would still recognize myself as ethically Chinese but never a Chinese citizen because without human right and civil even blacklist by Chinese government or some of our friends have been detained in China during the visit how can we say we are Chinese citizens and we are proud to be Hong Kongers and that's kind of unique identity of course it still has certain far away distance to recognize Hong Kong as kind of nationality but it's still a must for Beijing to realize that Hong Kong people realize the importance of (8/18)

freedom and democracy and if just ignore the voice of people the strike will continue just like today afternoon we will have the strike to continue our demand urge government to withdraw bill and the march will continue to show the power of people do you expect the protests to grow in the coming weeks protests will continue of course I will not suddenly imagine to the afternoon we have two or even more than two minutes people come out to the street but the momentum is continuing and we still keep going so what are the risks for being a protester right now for being an activist in Hong Kong today for you for example young activists hope to run for office if they were elected they have the experience being unseated and kicked out of the office if they apply to run as the candidate will being disqualified candidacy by Hong Kong authorities if they have to talk to the street they might be jailed just like me I've just been jailed for around 120 days but some of my teammates are now (9/18)

currently facing jail sentence for six years more than 20 political activists are still physically exist in jail serving the jail terms so no matter run for office and locked by government talk to the street might face the prosecution it's really the headline policy of presidency to Hong Kong but we still continue our battle so I asked you what's at stake for Hong Kong you mentioned presidency what's at stake for Beijing and where is the disconnect between what Hong Kongers expect as they're right and what Beijing expects from every part of China including Hong Kong before the transfer of sovereignty UK and China and those and signed on the signal British joint declaration that's the international treaty recognize Hong should maintain high degree autonomy and Hong Kong people deserve the right to have universal suffrage however Beijing is the one broke the promise towards Hong Kong people and ignore demand of Hong Kongers and that's the reason we knew that we are asking for autonomy (10/18)

democracy and elected the leader of our city and Beijing compared to the era of the former Chinese leader Xi Jinping is the one fully rely on hotline approach towards Hong Kong citizen so Carrie Lam recently made some comments about when there's trouble in Hong Kong if the police cannot subdue the protests that the People's Liberation Army might get involved are you concerned at the possibility that the Chinese government the government in Beijing could send the PLA into Hong Kong if these protests continue the Hong Kong office of PLA is just near government headquarters we knew they might have considered to send PLA to clear our protests but it's just damaging Hong Kong business and economic environment I believe no matter Beijing and Hong Kong government fully avoided if they decided really try to send PLA to shoot on Hong Kong people they need to pay the price do you think that your economy in Hong Kong and its importance as a financial hub and its significance for Chinese companies (11/18)

doing business internationally that this gives you a level of protection and leverage that you wouldn't have if you were on the mainland leverage and protection still exists because how Hong Kong is being recognized as the Asia financial hub and how Hong Kong under the trade war is still being recognized by U.S. as separate economic entity if Hong Kong anymore is just a normal Chinese city I believe now I can't contact this interview I must be still in prison or being prosecuted for 10 years and we hope people could remind that in Hong Kong protests are largely peaceful but even journalists have been shot by tear gas activists have been headshot by rubber bullets that all could be seen in those media coverage and how could police targeted peaceful protesters just asking for the fundamental right that the foreigners in western country enjoy since last century the right to have election so if Carrie Lam were to withdraw the bill entirely if she were to withdraw the extradition bill (12/18)

entirely would that be enough withdraw the bill and let Hong Kong people to have free election that's the way out and have free elections what do you think that will take so what is the plan by activists like yourself what are the steps in order to get from where you are today to where you want to be is it simply just continuing to apply pressure and running for office talk to the street run for office strengthen civil society and let the world keep that spotlight in Hong Kong and we get allies around the world and let presidency realize that free election right to vote the leader of the city is just the fundamental right of people asking for so recently global leaders met in Osaka Japan for the G20 meeting activists in Hong Kong managed to crowdfund close to seven million i think Hong Kong dollars for newspaper ads to run newspaper ads in international newspapers ahead of the G20 what were protesters what were activists in Hong Kong looking to achieve with these ads and how did this (13/18)

work out just like how japanese prime minister and us president raised the concern of the extradition bill and the implementation of one country to system to a presidency during the G20 summit in osaka it's really a good move and just like how uk and world leaders they also keep their eyes in Hong Kong i hope presidency and world leaders could realize that perhaps they might not really interested in the Hong Kong democratization but if Hong Kong is lack of democracy political and economic freedom is under threat it's not only damaging the livelihood of Hong Kong people it's also damaging Hong Kong as the asia financial hub and its erosion on the global business environment so even doesn't care about political freedom protection on Hong Kong economic freedom still been official for world's future development so if you were going into a meeting with the president of the united states or with members of the united states congress what would you ask for Hong Kong's delegation have met with (14/18)

vice president and also secretary of state of us during the past two months and raised the concern of the extradition bill and now Hong Kong human rights and democracy act is the bill that Hong Kong people hope us congress can pass as soon as possible to show their support to Hong Kong political and economic freedom josh well how important are the generational differences in accounting for what's happening in Hong Kong today for example what do your parents think or the people from their generation what do they think so when two out of 7.5 millions people took to the street and Hong Kong is a society with aging population no matter three years old kids joined the rally with baby cars took by the parents or 70 years old elderlies joined the strike the cross generation from the generation of baby boomers to the generation of men and news we show the solidarity of Hong Kongers so josh well what's your best case scenario what do you hope will come out of this and what concerns you the most (15/18)

about what might happen if the protest continue and no concessions are made by Kerry Lam and the Hong Kong government two or three months ago no one of the Hong Kongers could imagine two millions people took to the street but we did it five years ago during the umbrella movement we asked for free election we can't achieve it we claim that we will be back with 200 000 people five years later we are back with even stronger determination with two million people of course it's hard for us to guarantee under the hard line and terrible leadership of President Xi Jinping we are not sure when we will be day for Hong Kong to have democracy but we will continue our fight until we have democracy and Hong Kong is not only a financial city it's a protest city with Hong Kong people determination and passion josh well thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me is there any last message that you want to deliver besides everything you've already said so for us government and for people live (16/18)

in us i hope if they recognize and they understand what's going on in Hong Kong please urge your congressman to support Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act and we Hong Kong people hope it will be passed in US Congress as soon as possible at the same time i just raise and submit the petition in the White House website and urge the suspension of crowd control equipment exported to Hong Kong prefront on human rights abuse as we know that rubber bullets pepper spray and tear gas used by Hong Kong police are all purchased from us when UK government announced to stop the export license on those crowd control weapons to Hong Kong police i believe us should take reference from laws going on in UK and also stop the export license from us to Hong Kong us should not so any cow control weapon for Hong Kong police to suppress on peaceful protesters fight for freedom and human rights so you're saying that the US government should suspend any export or sale of crowd control equipment to Hong (17/18)

Kong because it's being used to control the protesters and this is where the Hong Kong police get their equipment yes all right josh well thank you so much for coming on the program i really appreciate speaking with you and i hope you stay safe and best of luck okay thank you (18/18)