RE: Are you a father? Protect your family by being steadfast in the Lord. đ ...
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This is the Protestant problem, always looking for chapter and verse. Again, I am not the expert you want me to be. You are asking the wrong person. As mentioned, all the answers to your questions are online. Do not ask someone who is not capable of giving you the answer you are looking for.
Going to God is better than just believing in the Bible alone imho. God is above the Bible, don't you agree? Or do you put the Bible above anything else even God Himself? Do you not pray at all? Do you not spend time with Him in prayer daily? Do you not pray even weekly at least? Not even fasting? If you only read the Bible and do not pray then why ask me for chapter and verse? Do you not trust God to reveal Himself and answer your questions? Even Jesus prayed so why can't you?
This simply means I do not place tradition or one mans words above Scripture.
I would rather point you to people you can read about but again, you just said you don't trust what any man says. I already said I am not the best person to answer your questions and yet you insist. No amount of explaining will suffice to you guys. That's just how Protestants are. Look up Blessed John Duns Scotus and check on his writings. But again even if I give you stuff to read you'd just scoff at it so what is the point of this conversation? Let us end it here because you will never be content with anything I say. đ If you say this is iron sharpening iron, then I hope you have also been sharpened by this conversation in some way. Again, may God bless your spiritual journey. đ
P. S. If you don't want to protect your family with prayer (and sacraments if Lutherans have 'em) and penance, that's your choice. I shared what dads can do for family protection and if you don't agree that's fine by me. Such info and reminders aren't for everyone especially those who don't agree God can protect their family in such a way. Sad but hey that's life.
I spent some time on this reply.
You're now accusing my of not praying and not fasting. That is a wild assumption based on nothing. Prayer is incredibly important and the best thing we can do in any and every situation. Scripture tells us to pray constantly. But now we are getting into weird territory of accusations without basis.
But before we go there I want to address a few of the things youâve said, with clarity and without hostility, because these issues matter for the Gospel itself.
You said over and over this is âthe Protestant problem,â that we âalways look for chapter and verse.â
But respectfully, that is not a Protestant problem. That is a biblical command.
Isaiah 8:20
âTo the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.â
Acts 17:11
The Bereans were called noble because they tested all teachings against Scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16â17
All Scripture is God-breathed and equips us for every good work.
If God has already spoken clearly in Scripture(which He did), then it is disobedient to refuse to show from Scripture what we claim to believe.
You said âGoing to God is better than believing in the Bibleâ and âGod is above the Bible.â
This is a category mistake.
No one puts the Bible above God.
But the Bible is the very Word of God and the way God Himself chose to reveal His will and character.
To say âGod is above the Bibleâ in a way that means we can bypass Scripture is dangerous. That is exactly how false prophets misled Israel:
Deuteronomy 13:1â3
Anyone who claims a revelation âfrom Godâ that contradicts what He already said is not from Him.
We are not free to appeal to private revelation, feelings, or tradition against or without Scripture.
You also said that because I ask for Scripture, I âdonât trust any manâ and that this means thereâs âno point.â
But this misunderstands the issue completely.
I am not rejecting human teachers.
I am rejecting any teacher who cannot show their doctrine from Godâs Word. I will not take a mans teaching over the teaching of God in the way He chose to reveal it.
That is exactly what God commands:
Mark 7:7â13
Jesus condemns any teaching that cannot be grounded in Scripture and elevates tradition above Godâs Word.
If a doctrine cannot be shown from Scripture, Christians are forbidden from accepting it.
(Deut. 4:2, Prov. 30:6, Rev. 22:18)
You have repeatedly appealed to:
Yet never once have you shown a single biblical text that teaches what you claim.
That is not discipleship.
That is avoiding Scripture.
You said âGod is above Scripture⌠donât you pray?â
Prayer does not reveal doctrine.
Scripture does.
Prayer is how we respond to Godâs revelation.
Scripture is how God gives His revelation.
If we cannot test doctrine by Scripture, then we are left with:
And then we have no way to discern truth from deception.
Scripture is God's safeguard against human error and spiritual deception.
Without Scripture:
That is why God gave His Word.
A final clarification
At every point in this discussion, I asked one simple, honest question:
âWhere does Scripture teach that humans can choose good on their own or contribute to salvation?â
Not one verse has been provided.
Instead, I have been told to:
That is not how Christian doctrine is established.
Doctrine must come from Scripture or not at all.
(2 Tim. 3:16â17; Acts 17:11; Mark 7:7)
I am not rejecting you.
I am simply holding us both to the standard that God Himself gave.
If a belief cannot be shown in the Word of God, then Christians have no authority to teach it.
May God bless you as well, truly.
I appreciate taking the time to still respond but again, you're asking the wrong person. You can look for the Bible chapter and verse on your own, you have eyes, you have hands and the internet and as you just said, you pray too. You don't need me to do it for you, which is totally not avoiding Scripture, but avoiding your veiled accusations so I'm simply not going to do that. Why? Because again, you only wanna see/read what you wanna see/read despite saying you aren't rejecting me. Whatever I say, you just want to believe your point of view and that I'm wrong about everything.
Yeah I would answer you if the way the convo was going is much better however from the start this hasn't been going well so nope. Find someone else to ask if you don't even want to rely on God outside of the Bible. Did you know that I heard the answers to your questions from two mass homilies few days ago? But you're not ready to know about it because you're stuck in your Bible alone mode so I'm out. Your standards are different from mine. Thank you. Bye.