RE: Value in the Spend?
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One way i could see this evolving into, and I'd hope it would, would be in the way @actifit posts did. Adding a few curators to look for exceptional posts on any given day and adding some extra voting mana behind those posts, showing others that hey, if you add some more text, thoughts, originality, pics, effort into your physical activity counter of the app, people may value them more and also interact/engage and have more reasons to follow you, thus creating a healthy and genuine relationship between author and reader/also author as everyone on hive likes to post. This in turn brings a lot more value to hive than just posting a pic of a map with a line following a road you ran through and a number saying you got this many steps in, give me upvote.
This also prevents issues you mentioned such as multiaccounting, because people have gotta put in more effort into their posts, what were you doing that day, did anything happen at the market/on the way/after, you know, just blog, rather than just posting a proof of purchase and getting overrewarded for it. It kind of becomes vote-buy-ish as we also suffer from the effects of somewhat lately from some projects we've ignored for far too long.
So yeah, while the initial idea has value, as I said in my previous comment, if left stagnant it can quickly turn into abuse. So my suggestion would be, manual curators encouraging better content and that the app doesn't force people to instantly post the pics but let's them make a regular post about their shopping activity. With some potential more restrictions or whatever so it still far outweighs what other web2 projects/discounts can offer but not so much that it takes a big toll on stakeholders here while at the same time making many dislike what it is they're seeing.
I don't see a reason why the spendhbd activity can't just be an "add-on" to a regular post. Like, "oh and btw, we went shopping later that day and purchased this for a discount", along with an appropriate beneficiary forfeiture to the project that makes the discounts possible. Honestly, giving better discounts to "better" authors/social users doesn't sound like a bad business model either, maybe they'd try a bit more then! :D
Lastly, this is something for many "experimentative projects using the rewards pool" not just singling out spendHBD. For instance, while @redditposh may be giving out too much rewards currently to only ~50 weekly sharers give or take, it is based on attempting to encourage more people to join and hive prices being low. Naturally at some point this "early adopter" phase may start to diminish and people may not earn as much from the same sharing performance, especially if the price of hive remains the same and more people join in as voting mana is scarce.
There is zero vote buying going on here. people need to buy HBD off the open market to get cash back. so they are putting more in than they get out. that is the antithesis of vote buying, total opposite.
Also, Hive is NOT a blogging platform. There are blogging platforms on Hive and that is fine, but it should be aparrent to most by now that after 9 years, blogging is only a small portion of what Hive is and so quality of content is not always the top priority. Knowing you recorded a moment in history with a time stamp, an action, a value exchange to a real business with a non KYC non banking asset backed stable coin, with no fees, a geo coordinate and two real accounts is an incredibly valuable moment to which we should be sending as much crypto as reasonably possible without extracting from the chain. It is far far more valuable than most (now clearly unsuccessful) distribution attempts of the token.
Hive is not only a blogging system, it is a way to reward actions.
now dont get me wrong, we are working on changing the formatting of the blogs and the way the content is produced. but this project is open source, one developer, and the price of hive is in the toilet, mostly due to rabid spending of community funds with almost zero accountability or reporting. at least this imitative has reports, so you can see how the spend hbd economy is doing or growing. might well be the only thing showing growth on hive at the moment tbf, apart from a couple other things.
We have made a video to respond in more detail to these concerns, and will release it soon.
We agree on most issues, but hovering the idea of downvotes over this project can quckly turn into a small group of people removing the spend hbd economy from hive, as most of the authors that bring traffic here have also been removed. Its not a good look, and Taraz has already been contacted several times on Discord with DMs with zero response. So lets see how this goes. We have no resources. Hive price in the toilet. So progress is slow. Lets support the tag and make this more successful
About the vote buying, not what I was saying, I mean those who buy votes generally end up with similar low effort content.
Okay yeah, but there's gotta be more proof of brain behind the rewards, or just send everything through beneficiaries to spendhbd than give authors any since they're already getting the benefit from the discounts - if that's then deemed feasible by the community in on the other hand is another thing but the post was mostly talking about the posts themselves.
My comment was meant to give some ideas and possible solutions such as how many actifit posts improved a lot after being incubated in ocd communities, spendhbd has been alive for quite a while now to just give it the "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" excuse. If the content/effort behind the posts getting rewarded the same has deteriorated to the point where people are downvoting and making posts about it, then maybe some changes are in order.
I'm personally still in favor of the idea and would welcome more experimental ideas that favor all stakeholders in the future.
Maybe you can help contribute to those ideas and help us build the tech to make these ideas a reality? Either way, we will continue to work towards it with the one developer that we have working on the project. At the end of the day, this is a community project, its exploded the HBD spending economy from zero to over a hundred thousand usd per year at points, and is currently around 80K HBD spending per year. There are hundreds of users now spending HBD that weren't there before and hundreds of businesses that accept HBD too, and its been done on a shoe string budget from personal money, from which Dan and I do not profit. Sagar and I have planned to implement a better payout system over teh previous months, but it takes time:
The above 4 are things that we are working on but it takes time with limited resources
I've given it like a couple hours worth of thought after reading this post, some comments here and some by @fokusnow and someone who asked him about an abuse vector, also talked to meno about some things regarding it and his experience with it.
Not sure why you're asking me to contribute more, we are all suffering from low hive prices and barely have devs hanging onto projects. Just thought I'd voice my opinion on how at least the curation and content could be improved and maybe the integrity of the sales compared to how it is currently looking.
Those sound like some good planned improvements already. We gotta remember that users like to game things, we see it all the time. No one distrusts you or dan, it's the other's that have leeway.
Yup and the only way that we close that leeway, is by using our resources to close loops. although im fairly happy that the amount of leakage here is minimal, especially when comparing it to some of the content that gets huge votes and has zero views, and some of the other ridiculous marketing initiatives being spent on that have no KPIs, or onboards to show. There are much more prominent people where we should focus our attention to hold to account with their spending directly of community money where zero results are shown or presented to the community.
Totally agree. Just saying it's good to have these conversations. I realize some here in the comments knew even less about spendhbd than I did. I'd also welcome people questioning if @redditposh is being abused/misused or overrewarded for the "value" it may bring to the ecosystem, since both projects are kind of similar where they maintain themselves using the author rewards pool.
Now if only we could talk more about the valueadd some proposals have it'd be even better!
We really need to quantify the amount of HBD being bought off the open market vs curation rewards, so that we can demonstrate that it causes a net buying pressure to HBD. i.e. the more whales vote, the more HBD is taken off the market via this imitative. Just haven't been able to do it yet, but the data is clearly there on chain.
I think SpendHBD is well misunderstood by many. While there are obvious things to improve which I have personally taken note of, the project is really impactful to the Hive economy and adoption. I'll give just one example.
If majority of the businesses onboarded start staking Hive to support their customers (@happycustomer just reached 1k HP in few months and still staking 3 Hive daily for the next 1 year), then the investment in HP long term is certainly a positive for Hive. If Hive is helping businesses to sell more, it won't be hard to convince them to buy Hive off the market and stake long-term.
Now if businesses start encouraging their customers (new hive users onboarded through shopping) to stake Hive too for long term, I feel it's a kind of great thing. I (Happy Customer Supermarket) have started it already, some customers joined August HPUD. So buying Hive and staking is one thing spemdHBD is encouraging and many other values like onboarding.
One obvious thing is this: adoption can never happen with a fire brigade approach. Step by step, customers learn to stake, to create more content, create quality content and just add value in order ways relative to what they gain. There could be mistakes and loopholes along the way, which we try to work on as fast as we could. But overall (without any bias) the project is well-thought out and has the potential to add value now and later.
I see beneficiary has been increased to 80% now, think it used to be 60 last I checked.
Yes, at this point you can check @thedistriator account, Dan and I are putting 700 USD per month of our own money into this to keep it breaking even, even with an 80% beneficiary. Low Hive and increasing daily HBD payments price limits the amount of payouts that can be made each day.
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